Author Topic: Community, not competition  (Read 1521 times)

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Offline November

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2014, 03:33:56 PM »
Sorry but could someone explain what resources we are supposedly competing for here?

Here in the context of this discussion's natural setting, or here in the context of this particular thread?  In this thread I would hope we are competing to uncover knowledge.  In nature we compete for anything that maintains life.  This is very likely the source of confusion in the first place.  quixoteQ's opening post described "survival" so I followed his lead by discussing competition and community in terms of ecology.  quixoteQ also infused concepts from sociology and socialization (e.g. sounds, language, contracts) as though it were the same as ecology.  While socialization is a subset of ecology, it isn't a necessary feature.


Offline jkb

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2014, 03:44:55 PM »
I make better pizza than any of you.




























 ;D


« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 03:46:35 PM by jkb »

Offline quixoteQ

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2014, 03:49:21 PM »
To quote myself:

Quote from: quixoteQ
Your argument, I know, is that two beings which require the same sustenance are in competition for that sustenance; by your definition existence and the instinct to survive place two beings in competition regardless of any other factor. 

« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 04:43:29 PM by quixoteQ »
Josh

Offline quixoteQ

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2014, 03:50:25 PM »
I make better pizza than any of you.
;D
. . . 1 - 0.   JKB.

Josh

Offline November

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2014, 04:25:54 PM »
In large part, that was just more arguing sociology versus ecology.  I can understand your confusion if you think they are the same thing.

I'm not sure how you're imagining one individual first experiences the presence of another individual, but I assure you it happens long before they are able to compete.

Your description of competition seems to suggest conflict.  For the last time, I am referring to ecological (biological) competition.  Nobody has to know anybody else is around to be in competition for the same resources.  They merely need to exist in the same environment requiring the same resources.  A bird in a forest might eat the same berries a complete lone human eats.  They are then said to be in competition for that resource.  They have never seen each other.  They do not communicate with each other.  They do not go to battle on Iron Chef Forest.  Please crack open an ecology textbook, or at least get something of a summary here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_(biology)

If your origin story involves a creator who throws random individuals into a ring, this makes sense.

I have no idea where that came from.  Creators are not recognized in the study of ecology.

Offline quixoteQ

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2014, 04:43:54 PM »
To quote myself:

Quote from: quixoteQ
Your argument, I know, is that two beings which require the same sustenance are in competition for that sustenance; by your definition existence and the instinct to survive place two beings in competition regardless of any other factor. 

ETA: I see that I deleted my earlier comment while trying to quote it.  So, it seems whatever pointy edge I had to this post is probably gone.  Unless it had something to do with scotch.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 06:54:05 PM by quixoteQ »
Josh

Offline November

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2014, 06:38:33 PM »
Your argument, I know, is that two beings which require the same sustenance are in competition for that sustenance; by your definition existence and the instinct to survive place two beings in competition regardless of any other factor.

It isn't my definition and you know that.  Straight from the wiki article I referenced: "Exploitation competition: Occurs indirectly through a common limiting resource which acts as an intermediate. For example, use of resources depletes the amount available to others, or they compete for space."  The whole reason your argument that humans could form a community without first competing for resources didn't make any sense was because you placed it within the context of survival.  If you leave out survival, you can shortcut ecology and jump straight to sociology.  I hope everyone, understanding the full definition of competition as it relates to survival, can now agree that forming a community before there are people living in the same environment is a flawed, if not impossible concept.

Now if we go back to cooking competitions, where nobody has to worry about survival, we might as well be talking about team sports.  In that respect, a team is just like a community, and is surrounded by an even larger community of fans.  I'm a fan of several collegiate and professional sports teams, but I don't get into the fanaticism that many do.  I liken the wild enthusiasm to the desire for drama on reality shows, or the steaming rhetoric of politics.  However, there is a valid point to the fervency.  Teams, just like communities, believe they are special.  Sometimes they have to in order to overcome disappointments.  To continue to believe that, some kind of narrative must be imprinted on the group.  Teams and communities have to trust they have a better solution than the next, and the narrative helps creates that separation.  So while I admit I don't like the drama, it is inevitable.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2014, 08:06:47 PM »
I make better pizza than any of you.




























 ;D
In this sector of the community we don't "make"....we create. So, yes, you are probably duly full of yourself.  :)

Wizard Bob
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2014, 08:23:03 PM »


Now if we go back to cooking competitions, where nobody has to worry about survival, we might as well be talking about team sports.  In that respect, a team is just like a community, and is surrounded by an even larger community of fans.  I'm a fan of several collegiate and professional sports teams, but I don't get into the fanaticism that many do.  I liken the wild enthusiasm to the desire for drama on reality shows, or the steaming rhetoric of politics.  However, there is a valid point to the fervency.  Teams, just like communities, believe they are special.  Sometimes they have to in order to overcome disappointments.  To continue to believe that, some kind of narrative must be imprinted on the group.  Teams and communities have to trust they have a better solution than the next, and the narrative helps creates that separation.  So while I admit I don't like the drama, it is inevitable.
You have a clever style of touching on various human interests while coming full circle with your point.
Bob digs that man, thanks.  8)

Bob
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Offline November

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2014, 08:44:44 PM »
In this sector of the community we don't "make"....we create.

Careful.  I understand your intent but check the URL again.  As a matter of fact, pizzacreating.com is available.  Now that I've pointed that out, I wonder how long it will remain available.


Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2014, 09:02:32 PM »
Careful.  I understand your intent but check the URL again.  As a matter of fact, pizzacreating.com is available.  Now that I've pointed that out, I wonder how long it will remain available.
;D   My "sector" appropriation was intent on those in this thread(macro-community :))......my typical facetious response to snobbery.  ::)

Boob
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2014, 10:26:29 PM »
I make better pizza than any of you.

So long as I make better pizza than I do, I'm happy.
Pizza is not bread.

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: Community, not competition
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2014, 12:08:48 AM »
  I enjoy cooking and feeding myself and others. I see all of the junk on television, that turns food into a competition, and I cringe. To me, food should not be a competition, it should be a community. You help me get the results I want, and I help you get the results you want. Whether it is in methods, sourcing ingredients, or getting the right equipment and setup, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.
  That is why I feel at home here. It is a sense of community (a global community), where we all strive to make improvements with each other, instead of in spite of each other.
  A big ol' "Thanks!" and a hug, to everyone here that makes this forum feel that way.

 ;D :pizza:

Wayne

Wayne, that's really well said. Thank you for expressing so eloquently what I think many of have felt about pizzamaking.com. 

Regards,

TinRoof


 

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