Cake Yeast Dough

[Jackie Tran]

That is a really cool story Scot.  Next time you go, give me a heads up.

[pizza dr]

Oh that would be a blast!  NM summit! 

[DC8702]

I've been cooking on a FB-CASA2G100 (40" floor) consistently for a little over a year now and I somewhat agree about the floor, it does get really hot.  My usual regime is to cook 10 pies.  I find that the first couple of bottoms are always over done...but as the night goes, the floor cools a bit and the temp equalizes it gets much better.  I find the floor sweet spot at approx. 850.

I have also done a slower longer warm up period where the oven gets more time to equalize and have better results with the floor. 

In the beginning I can only do 1 pie at a time because it's so hot, but as the night goes on I can do 2.

[Jackie Tran]

Maybe a mod can move these posts about hot floors to a new thread.  There is valuable info here but this thread has now been derailed.  Sorry Marlon. 

[shuboyje]

John K, this is what Marlon suggested above.  I have used this method many times.  It works well if you are going to bake 1-2 NP pies.  After that the floor temp climbs pretty rapidly with a large rolling flame.

Jeff, good to know about whitacre greer light duty fire bricks.  I would really be interested in trying these.   What floor and dome temp are you baking at and how fast is your typical bake? 

Thanks,
Chau

I bake hot and fast.  Generally 40-60 seconds with the floor 900+.  Dome temperature is always outside the range of my gun, but I like the flame to touch the opposite wall.  I should also note that I do not dome my pies, so they spend pretty much 100% of the time on the deck.

[bakeshack]

Maybe a mod can move these posts about hot floors to a new thread.  There is valuable info here but this thread has now been derailed.  Sorry Marlon. 

No problem, Chau!  These are all really good information for everyone's benefit.

[Serpentelli]

I bake hot and fast.  Generally 40-60 seconds with the floor 900+.  Dome temperature is always outside the range of my gun, but I like the flame to touch the opposite wall.  I should also note that I do not dome my pies, so they spend pretty much 100% of the time on the deck.

This is all very subjective of course, but I am getting confused by all the perfection around here! For instance, Chau's most recent undercarriage shots look PERFECT to me. I would say the same about Omid's Da Michele clones. And yet they are not satisfied!

This may be the point  (never truly being satisfied), but I for one would love to see an example of what the experts here consider to be a perfectly balanced pie, WITH SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE UNDERCARRIAGE. That would give folks like me some idea as to where we need to be heading.

I think we are all pretty familiar with the rampant perfection that has been achieved throughout this board on the tops of pies (with a special "bow down" to Marlon who started this thread), so my question is really more about the BOTTOMS.

Unfortunately I do not have any post-worthy undercarriage shots, but I will start the thread anyway.

Thank you for your patience!

John K

[pizza dr]

Well I agree with the "bow down" to Marlon.  Those pies at the beginning of this thread are haunting me.  To me that is the definition of balance.  This is all subjective of course, and we are only going by pics, but I would kill to have one of my pizzas look like that!  I have no doubt they were delicious as well 

Scot

[bakeshack]

This is all very subjective of course, but I am getting confused by all the perfection around here! For instance, Chau's most recent undercarriage shots look PERFECT to me. I would say the same about Omid's Da Michele clones. And yet they are not satisfied!

This may be the point  (never truly being satisfied), but I for one would love to see an example of what the experts here consider to be a perfectly balanced pie, WITH SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE UNDERCARRIAGE. That would give folks like me some idea as to where we need to be heading.

John,

One thing you want to avoid for the bottom is the appearance of yellowish color which means that some excess flour got burnt and will most likely taste bitter.  Sometimes, a little yellowish stain underneath is fine and will add another dimension to the taste of the pizza but too much and it will be inedible.  

For my taste, this is the perfect undercrust.  There are also leopard spots almost evenly distributed underneath and the charring is not too large.  

Marlon

[Jackie Tran]

I bake hot and fast.  Generally 40-60 seconds with the floor 900+.  Dome temperature is always outside the range of my gun, but I like the flame to touch the opposite wall.  I should also note that I do not dome my pies, so they spend pretty much 100% of the time on the deck.

Jeff, perhaps I do not need a SF or Acunto oven, but a Shuboyje oven!  I would love to see some of your pies sometime.   If you have pictures, please please post them.  Do not be shy.

John K.  Those bottom pics I posted only look halfway decent b/c I had to do half of the bake off the floor and on the peel due to the floor being too hot.  If I had done the entire bake on the floor, which is ideal, the bottoms would have been burnt entirely black.  As you can see from the 2nd shot of the bottoms, it is quite a bit darker than the first.  B/c my oven is so unbalanced, the pies can only sit about 20 seconds or so on the floor and then I have to lift them up with the peel, only touching down momentarily to turn the pie and back up it goes.  It's more work and I don't mind it, but ideally one shouldn't have to dome the pie or only briefly at the very end of the bake.

Chau

[bakeshack]

Well I agree with the "bow down" to Marlon.  Those pies at the beginning of this thread are haunting me.  To me that is the definition of balance.  This is all subjective of course, and we are only going by pics, but I would kill to have one of my pizzas look like that!  I have no doubt they were delicious as well 

Scot

Scot, thank you for the kind words!  It wouldn't be possible if not for the help of all the very generous members here at the forum and I would love to be able to help as well.

[shuboyje]

Jeff, perhaps I do not need a SF or Acunto oven, but a Shuboyje oven!  I would love to see some of your pies sometime.   If you have pictures, please please post them.  Do not be shy.

It'll have to wait for the warm weather here in Michigan.  The oven currently doesn't have a weatherproof outer shell, so it went in the garage for the winter, and with my little MG Midget in there too there is no way it's coming out until the nice weather gets here.  For some reason my wife doesn't like the idea of me venting it through the roof.  I even tried "but Craig did it!!". 

[Serpentelli]

John,

One thing you want to avoid for the bottom is the appearance of yellowish color which means that some excess flour got burnt and will most likely taste bitter.  Sometimes, a little yellowish stain underneath is fine and will add another dimension to the taste of the pizza but too much and it will be inedible.  

For my taste, this is the perfect undercrust.  There are also leopard spots almost evenly distributed underneath and the charring is not too large.  

Marlon

Marlon,

I doubt very much that I would find any novice or seasoned expert, anywhere in the world who would disagree with your interpretation of the perfect undercrust as you have shown here. Kudos!

And "Thank You" for sharing the beautiful pictures!

John K

PS Pls tell me/us the "type" of oven and the type of floor you are using, as well as the floor temp and bake time that you used to achieve the beautiful undercarriage shown above.  JK

[Serpentelli]

PS Pls tell me/us the "type" of oven and the type of floor you are using, as well as the floor temp and bake time that you used to achieve the beautiful undercarriage shown above.  JK

By this I am only trying to ask: Is it a "Neapolitan oven" and are you using firebrick/refractory material or more exotic (i.e. biscotto) maerial on the floor

[RobynB]

Those bottom pics I posted only look halfway decent b/c I had to do half of the bake off the floor and on the peel due to the floor being too hot.  If I had done the entire bake on the floor, which is ideal, the bottoms would have been burnt entirely black.  As you can see from the 2nd shot of the bottoms, it is quite a bit darker than the first.  B/c my oven is so unbalanced, the pies can only sit about 20 seconds or so on the floor and then I have to lift them up with the peel, only touching down momentarily to turn the pie and back up it goes.  It's more work and I don't mind it, but ideally one shouldn't have to dome the pie or only briefly at the very end of the bake.

Chau

See, I have the opposite (sort of) going on - because my dome is so low, doming is pretty risky - I tend to set the pizza on fire if I raise it more than an inch or two.  So I try to cook completely on the floor except for turning, and was having issues with burning bottoms.  So I've started removing more coals and using a small coal bed with a lot of live flame when I'm ready to cook.  I'm still working on the balance there.  I cooked last night and removed too much of the coals, so the pizzas were taking too long to get done...   Balance is always the struggle. 

[Chicago Bob]

See, I have the opposite (sort of) going on - because my dome is so low, doming is pretty risky - I tend to set the pizza on fire if I raise it more than an inch or two.  So I try to cook completely on the floor except for turning, and was having issues with burning bottoms.  So I've started removing more coals and using a small coal bed with a lot of live flame when I'm ready to cook.  I'm still working on the balance there.  I cooked last night and removed too much of the coals, so the pizzas were taking too long to get done...   Balance is always the struggle. 

I wonder how your pie would cook if you placed a 1/4in thick by 12in round aluminum plate on your deck a minute or 2 before launch...I know it sorta sounds like defeating the purpose of that great oven you have....

[David Deas]

For my taste, this is the perfect undercrust.  There are also leopard spots almost evenly distributed underneath and the charring is not too large.  

Marlon

Damn.  That *is* the perfect undercrust.  Bravo.  

The pies in the opening post look fantastic.  They really are some of the best I have seen on the forum.  That's a very very nice job.

[andreguidon]

Talking to a technical guy from a refractory company here in Brasil, he told me that bricks made with Magnesite instead of alumina have the thermal conductivity closer to 0.6 W/m*K.

[pizzaboyfan]

I must have been lucky when I built my Casa 90, as I don't have any of the bottom burning issues as described.
I have 4 inches (double layer) of insulating board under the oven floor, and another 2 inches of solid  BlueStone under that.
My oven heats to temp in just over 60 minutes.
Perry

[TXCraig1]

I must have been lucky when I built my Casa 90, as I don't have any of the bottom burning issues as described.
I have 4 inches (double layer) of insulating board under the oven floor, and another 2 inches of solid  BlueStone under that.
My oven heats to temp in just over 60 minutes.
Perry

How hot do you run it on the deck?