Author Topic: Cake Yeast Dough  (Read 15091 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2013, 02:29:20 PM »
Impressive Marlon.  How was the texture compared to your regular pies?  Did you favor these pies?


Offline bakeshack

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2013, 02:47:17 PM »
Thanks guys!  I have to say that a lot of the information and wisdom came from Omid and I just followed his lead on this one.  ;D

Chau, the texture was very tender although it would definitely be much lighter if I had the time to wait another 4 hrs and let it mature even more.  The flavor was as good as my other NP pies.  For some reason, I now prefer cake yeast over sourdough on my NP pies in texture and subtle flavor.  I do not necessarily favor this pie over the first batch of pies I made on this thread although I appreciate some of its qualities which I would like to incorporate in my ideal NP pizza.  I prefer the micro-blistering on the other batch of pizza I made here - http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21730.msg219699.html#msg219699 but I like the overall balance of the da michele style pie in terms of its larger size:topping:crust ratio.  Also, I would like to achieve this on a much shorter fermentation period (maybe 24-30 hrs). 

Marlon

Offline Pizza Napoletana

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2013, 04:54:56 PM »
I have to say that a lot of the information and wisdom came from Omid and I just followed his lead on this one.

Thank you, but your achievements are due to your own insatiable persistence, creativity, and state of mind. If I am not mistaken, you are a beginner in this undertaking, yet you have already excelled yourself beyond, within a short period of time, and you keep pushing yourself farther. I look forward to seeing what else can come out of your wood-fired oven (which you built yourself). Good day!

Omid
Recipes make pizzas no more than sermons make saints!

http://pizzanapoletanismo.com/2011/09/27/a-philosophy-of-pizza-napoletanismo/

Offline thezaman

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2013, 05:20:52 PM »
those look identical to da michele pizzas. ill bet they come very close in taste.

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2013, 07:22:13 PM »
those look identical to da michele pizzas. ill bet they come very close in taste.

Thank you Larry!  The flavor is very good.  I even prefer this type of flavor over my sourdough NP pizza.  I hope I can get to try da Michele soon so I can find out for myself. 




Offline thezaman

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2013, 08:34:18 PM »
marlon,pictures of da michele pizza. these were double mozzarella. they were wet and needed a fork to eat them, a realy great pie. i can say that slight depression set in when i was finished.it was that good!

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2013, 10:31:13 PM »
i can say that slight depression set in when i was finished.it was that good!

 :-D thank you for the pictures, Larry.  I have heard that some people have issues with their doppio mozzarella because it gets extremely wet.  Btw, did you notice if the crumb structure of their cornicione is as open as we tend to strive for or it's just light and tender with a fairly open crumb?  Thanks. 

Marlon

Offline thezaman

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2013, 11:09:14 PM »
 marlon, the cornicione was not open very much but the dough was tender. it certainly was not something they worried about.the vpn stores were more like what we do.
 john and i ate at via tribunali in nyc the other day and it was a very good pizza!!! they use solana tomatoes and they were delicious.their dough was opened ny pizza style the edge was small,and the dough was thin but the pie was outstanding. i think john will post a report soon.i will definitely add that to my pizza choices in nyc. my family and i went to don antonios monday and his pies were delicious,we sampled a lot of food from his menu and it is right out of naples.

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2013, 08:18:52 PM »
Marlon,

I am wondering how far you have been pushing your CY, meaning at what point do you consider the yeast to be too old to use anymore? I recently took some THREE MONTH OLD CY from the fridge (kept at 39 degrees) and proofed it with sugar and flour and sure as shootin it started to bubble. But I went ahead and ordered some new CY anyway, since I wasn't sure of the end result if I were to use the old CY.

The aged CY smells perfectly fine, and the color is not off in any way,  but it has a much creamier consistency and doesn't "break off cleanly" like it does from a fresh cake.

Some people talk about freezing CY indefinitely and then just bringing small pieces up to RT when they are going to be used.

Well any advice you can give me would be much appreciated!

John
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Offline bakeshack

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2013, 10:42:10 PM »
John,

I have used CY up to 6-months kept inside the refrigerator (located very close to the vent - it is very important to put it on the coldest part of your fridge) and it worked perfectly fine.  The 6-month or older may possibly need more time to mature but at RT fermentation, I have not experienced any issues.  At 3 months, it should still crumble easily (maybe a little bit softer than the new CY).  I just keep it tightly wrapped in plastic and then placed inside a ziploc bag with air sucked out.  I have also used a frozen CY with no issues.  Just take it out of the freezer the night before you want to use it and place it in the refrigerator.  It might leak some water and become a bit mushy but it should still work.  

The first set of pies in this thread used a 6-month old CY and they worked perfectly.  They were probably my best set of NP pizza.  


Marlon



Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2013, 10:09:19 AM »
Marlon,

Thanks, that gives me a lot more confidence in using the older stuff I have. As you know, the issue is not the cost of CY, its just that for a lot of us it is a 1 week process of ordering and getting it when needed.

Interesting to hear that the "out-of-date" CY gave you resluts that you found superior to "fresh" CY!!

What a great thing this pizza making is!!

John
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline JD

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2013, 06:09:42 PM »
Marlon,

Have you ever posted a picture of your homemade oven? I'd love to see what's cooking those impressive pizza's

JD
Josh

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2013, 07:27:08 PM »
JD,

Here is a picture of my oven. 

Marlon


Offline JD

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2013, 07:35:54 PM »
Beautiful! Is it a cob oven? Looks like a stucco exterior. Would love to hear details if you don't mind.

Josh

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2013, 07:53:06 PM »
Thanks!  It's a firebrick oven.  I would definitely change some things if I had to do it over but I am very happy with it.  I found some more pics and details which I posted from an older thread.  It has about 3-4 inches of insulation (ceramic blanket) and then I put a screen around it then covered it with stucco mix.  The deck has a 2 inch ceramic board insulation underneath. 

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16227.msg158726.html#msg158726  

Marlon
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 07:55:11 PM by bakeshack »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2013, 08:16:55 PM »
I am very happy with it.  


So are your pies apparantly!

Your pies posted in that link above(http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16227.msg158726.html#msg158726) look great, I remember them well. Notwithstanding, the pies you're baking today look even better - and not just a little better - they are probably the best NP on the forum. What are the main changes you've made to your dough, work flow, baking, etc. between then and now? It is just upping the heat and shortening the bake time, or are there other important changes you've made?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline JD

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2013, 09:08:24 PM »
Thanks!  It's a firebrick oven.  I would definitely change some things if I had to do it over but I am very happy with it.  I found some more pics and details which I posted from an older thread.  It has about 3-4 inches of insulation (ceramic blanket) and then I put a screen around it then covered it with stucco mix.  The deck has a 2 inch ceramic board insulation underneath. 

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16227.msg158726.html#msg158726  

Marlon


Very impressive yet again. I'm an avid DYI'er, probably to a fault. I'd like to use your concept in the future when I add a WFO to my arsenal. That's in the future though, other priorities lie ahead of me now.  :chef:

Josh

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2013, 09:18:24 PM »
So are your pies apparantly!

Your pies posted in that link above(http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16227.msg158726.html#msg158726) look great, I remember them well. Notwithstanding, the pies you're baking today look even better - and not just a little better - they are probably the best NP on the forum. What are the main changes you've made to your dough, work flow, baking, etc. between then and now? It is just upping the heat and shortening the bake time, or are there other important changes you've made?


Thank you, Craig!  I believe the "Best NP" belongs to The Garage, hands down!   :D  

I have made quite a few changes on my workflow and not necessarily on the actual formula.  I will try to illustrate below:

1)  Fermentation management - I really think this plays a huge role in the changes/improvement in my pizza over the past year or so.  Before, my dough would get really active before I even get to the balling stage.  By the time I make dough balls, the dough is almost nearing maturation, IMO, which hampers my ability to properly stretch the dough ball (if you notice, the older pizza in the link provided is much smaller than what I make now) and produces too much bubbles which just pop during stretching and burn during baking.  Now, I have learned to pay close attention to how the dough behaves during the bulk (visually, there is almost no activity but when you touch it, you will know that the yeast is working on the dough) and ball so I can make the necessary adjustment in temperature, etc.  Also, better fermentation management allows me to be more relaxed and give the oven enough time to preheat because I know that my dough balls have a much longer window of usability (usually around 8 hrs at least) without noticing any product degradation.  

2)  Dough-making skills - Going back to the hand kneading process really allowed me to develop the "feel" for the dough which I think is very important.  After the kneading process (it usually take me about 8 mins to initially develop a 3.5kg dough plus a 20 min rest before doing 1 stretch and fold), you can really feel the dough has become much lighter and filled with air.  If I go back to making dough with a mixer, I think I will be able to do a much better job than before because I would know the different stages to look for just by touching the dough which can help avoid overdevelopment/underdevelopment of the dough, etc.  Right now, I am not too concerned with very accurate measurements because I feel confident that I can make the necessary adjustments depending on what the dough needs (lower/higher temp, ball early, etc.)  

3)  Oven fire management - I have also changed how I build the live fire inside the oven while baking pizza.  Before, I would just preheat, move the coals to the side then place 2-3 logs and let it burn.  Now, I would preheat the oven (usually about 4 hrs) and let the coals burn down a bit before I move them to the side.  Sometimes, there wouldn't be that much coals left.  I would put 3 logs (1 log is big) inside the oven to burn and place the big log on the floor and stack the 2 smaller logs across it.  The larger log would protect the pizza from too much heat from the side coming from the coals or fire.  The fire will come across the dome and give me a perfect balance of top and bottom heat.  

Finally, I realized that I was getting caught up too much with the idea of getting short bake times, leoparding, etc. and it seemed like I was forcing it to bake within 60 secs and putting it too close to the fire to get leoparding when you actually end up burning it instead.  When I focused on the fundamentals which I listed above, the short bake times and leoparding came naturally, somehow, and the pizza got really, really good.  Now, I am much more comfortable making pizza and I am truly enjoying it. 
 

Marlon
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 09:20:11 PM by bakeshack »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2013, 09:23:31 PM »
Your point #3 is very interesting to me, and something I've thought a lot about but done nothing with. Have you considered placing a heavy iron bar up against the coal pile to block some IR? Omid did it once, and his results looked great, but all his pies look great, so it didn't tell me much
Pizza is not bread.

Offline bakeshack

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Re: Cake Yeast Dough
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2013, 09:27:31 PM »
Your point #3 is very interesting to me, and something I've thought a lot about but done nothing with. Have you considered placing a heavy iron bar up against the coal pile to block some IR? Omid did it once, and his results looked great, but all his pies look great, so it didn't tell me much

 :-D  I haven't tried it but I think it's a brilliant idea. 


 

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