Author Topic: How much dough for 12 in. pan?  (Read 4668 times)

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Offline garyd

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How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« on: October 26, 2012, 05:37:53 PM »
How much deep dish dough for a 12 inch deep dish pan or cast iron skillet?


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2012, 05:59:38 PM »
My spreadsheet suggests 14.14 oz of dough.

This is for a TF of 0.115 oz per square inch, with a rim of TF=0.03 oz per square inch that extends an inch above the rest of the crust. Also, my spreadsheet recommends using 10.82 oz of cheese and 16.35 oz of tomatoes.

Offline garyd

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2012, 10:39:16 PM »
My spreadsheet suggests 14.14 oz of dough.

This is for a TF of 0.115 oz per square inch, with a rim of TF=0.03 oz per square inch that extends an inch above the rest of the crust. Also, my spreadsheet recommends using 10.82 oz of cheese and 16.35 oz of tomatoes.

Is your spreadsheet on your blog?

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2012, 09:55:14 AM »
No, it's just something I have in my computer that makes a good cheat sheet for dough formulas of the various styles of pizza I make. Part of it is similar to the dough calculators on this web site, but I have another component that helps me figure out deep dish dough quantities in a different way than the calculators here do it. Another part of the same component helps me figure out how much sauce and cheese to use for any given pizza size.

I occasionally tweak the numbers that determine how much sauce & cheese to use. These numbers are similar to TF, but for sauce and cheese rather than dough. I have to admit I'm still pretty unsure of the deep dish cheese figure I gave you. I think the number I suggested for cheese may be a little high, but I'd say it's in the ballpark.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2012, 10:34:41 AM »
I agree, a pound of cheese is right in there for a 12in pie. It doesn't go as far as one might think once you start slicing it into tiles.

edit:sorry, I misread the numbers. But knowing me...I'd still use a poung of cheese!  :D
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 11:45:53 AM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Gregg

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2012, 12:07:11 PM »
I made a 12-inch deep dish a couple of days ago with 384g (13.7oz) of dough, which was just the right amount to my liking. 16 oz of cheese was used, which was probably a little too much. 12 oz sounds about right.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2012, 12:38:16 PM »
I pinch my DD up tight down in that little corner Gregg so I usually go oz to pan size  9in pan gets 9oz dough. I'm real scientific with these matters..... :-D
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Offline garyd

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 06:11:32 PM »
No, it's just something I have in my computer that makes a good cheat sheet for dough formulas of the various styles of pizza I make. Part of it is similar to the dough calculators on this web site, but I have another component that helps me figure out deep dish dough quantities in a different way than the calculators here do it. Another part of the same component helps me figure out how much sauce and cheese to use for any given pizza size.

I occasionally tweak the numbers that determine how much sauce & cheese to use. These numbers are similar to TF, but for sauce and cheese rather than dough. I have to admit I'm still pretty unsure of the deep dish cheese figure I gave you. I think the number I suggested for cheese may be a little high, but I'd say it's in the ballpark.

Any way you can post the dough amounts for various size pans? 6 inch thru 16 inch?

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2012, 08:14:03 PM »
Any way you can post the dough amounts for various size pans? 6 inch thru 16 inch?
whatever size pan you got say..12in pan...add 1 more oz dough to it...uhhh, that would be 13oz dough/.See...easy man.  :chef:
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 08:19:05 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2012, 09:35:18 PM »
whatever size pan you got say..12in pan...add 1 more oz dough to it...uhhh, that would be 13oz dough/.See...easy man.  :chef:

recipes (clones) will change the weight of dough, too. generally, the size of pizza doughs is like that of the fibonacci sequence. 10'' 10 oz, 12'' 14.5 oz, 14" 21 oz, 16'' 26oz, 18'' 30oz

numbers posted (minus the 18", which i have estimated) are that of PJ dough weights.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 09:37:47 PM by c0mpl3x »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2012, 09:44:37 PM »
recipes (clones) will change the weight of dough, too. generally, the size of pizza doughs is like that of the fibonacci sequence. 10'' 10 oz, 12'' 14.5 oz, 14" 21 oz, 16'' 26oz, 18'' 30oz

numbers posted (minus the 18", which i have estimated) are that of PJ dough weights.
Yep. sorry..that what I was thinking...thanks complex, you saved me good man! preciate brother. :)
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2012, 01:11:05 PM »
There is no one-size-fits-all amount of dough to use in a deep-dish pan of a given size. The amount will depend on the dough formulation and the thickness factor, as well as the size, type and depth of the pan and the height of the dough up the sides of the pan. For example, I took the dough formulation at Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg63992.html#msg63992 and ran the numbers for different pan sizes, from 9" to 16", through the deep-dish dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html. Here are the dough weights for those pans, as well as the weight differences when going from one size to the next:

9", 12.56 ounces
10", 14.95 ounces (2.39 ounces from 9" to 10")
11", 17.54 ounces (2.59 ounces from 10" to 11")
12", 20.33 ounces (2.79 ounces from 11" to 12")
13", 23.32 ounces (2.99 ounces from 12" to 13")
14", 26.51 ounces (3.19 ounces from 13" to 14")
15", 29.89 ounces (3.38 ounces from 14" to 15")
16", 33.48 ounces (3.59 ounces from 15" to 16")

As can be seen from the above, the numbers do not increase linearly with pan size. Also, other dough formulations with different thickness factors will produce different results.

To the point made by c0mpl3x, I have seen examples of chain pizzas that do not use the same thickness factor for all size pizzas. In the case of Papa John's, the thickness factors vary across the size offerings. Mellow Mushroom does likewise. It may be that different size pizzas bake up differently in the same oven and, as a result, different thickness factors are used to compensate, or maybe it is something as simple as wanting to use dough ball weights that have simple, easy to remember dough ball weights as opposed to oddball weights that can result from using the same thickness factor for all sizes.

Peter


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2012, 01:16:46 PM »
edit:sorry, I misread the numbers. But knowing me...I'd still use a poung of cheese!  :D

And you might be right. I've tried to figure things out by relying on personal preference, memories of the one Malnati's pizza I've ever eaten (as well as many Uno chain pizzas), visual TV evidence on shows that feature Malnati's, and verbal cues from Marc Malnati (even though I know he doesn't always tell the truth).

I think I'm in the ballpark, but I know I haven't hit a home run yet. That's why I change some of my spreadsheet figures almost every time I make a pizza.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2012, 01:33:40 PM »
For example, I took the dough formulation at Reply 26 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6480.msg63992.html#msg63992 and ran the numbers for different pan sizes, from 9" to 16", through the deep-dish dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dd_calculator.html.


The problem with the deep dish dough calculator (or, rather, one of the problems) is that it assumes the dough is supposed to be a uniform thickness, both on the sides and the bottom. But most deep dish pizza skins/crusts aren't like that. Rather, the sides are thinner than the bottom. Also, it doesn't matter how deep the pan is. If I make a Malnati's style deep dish, I'm gonna pull the dough to about 1.25" up the side of the pan regardless of whether I'm using a pan that's 1.5" deep or a pan that's 3" deep.

I'm not saying this because it's how I do it; I'm saying this because it's how they do it at Malnati's and the other places we're trying to copy.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2012, 02:03:37 PM »
The problem with the deep dish dough calculator (or, rather, one of the problems) is that it assumes the dough is supposed to be a uniform thickness, both on the sides and the bottom. But most deep dish pizza skins/crusts aren't like that. Rather, the sides are thinner than the bottom. Also, it doesn't matter how deep the pan is. If I make a Malnati's style deep dish, I'm gonna pull the dough to about 1.25" up the side of the pan regardless of whether I'm using a pan that's 1.5" deep or a pan that's 3" deep.


At the time of the design of the deep-dish dough calculating tool, Mike (Boy Hits Car) and I were aware of the fact that pizza operators like Giordano's and others were using dough sheeters/rollers to form their skins with a uniform thickness. Also, we were aware that several of our members were using rolling pins to roll out their skins. We also knew that some members had sloping-sided pans rather than straight-sided pans. And the instructions for some of the recipes called for the skins to be formed up the sides of pans to different heights. We spent a fair amount of time identifying as many deep-dish recipes as we could and all of the ingredients that were used to make deep-dish doughs. We never gave any thought to using different thickness factors for the parts of skins that go up the side of the pans as opposed to the bottom. In retrospect, I am not sure how we would have addressed that issue. As a last minute thought, we decided to try to cover the stuffed pizza deep dish option. All things considered, we were pleased with what we did. It does not bother or offend me in the least if some people find fault with the tool. We always intended that the tool be used with proven dough formulations and that members experiment with their doughs and their pizzas (see the discussion at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4931.msg41756.html#msg41756). The deep dish dough calculating tool is just a tool like any other tool.

Peter
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 11:43:32 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2012, 04:53:42 PM »
Garyd,

Toward the end of my best-yet deep dish blog post, I listed recommended dough, cheese, and sauce weights for every size from 6" to 14". Disclaimer: I want to make it real clear that 1) I don't consider myself a deep dish expert, and 2) these recommended weights are probably a little off. Even though all my portion suggestions are based on criteria that should be uniform between all pan sizes with straight sides, some of the numbers probably don't translate well between the smallest and largest sizes. Having only made 9" and 10" deep dish pizzas, my recommended portion weights are most applicable to pizzas in the neighborhood of 9"-10".

Peter,

I don't mean to be excessively picky or critical. I realize there is no right way to determine how much dough is appropriate for any given size of deep dish pizza, but I do think there are wrong ways. And there is nothing personal in what I'm about to say, but I think the dough calculator leans pretty heavily in the wrong direction. Surely it was tremendously helpful when it was created, but a lot has changed since then. Home pizzamakers had to make a lot of guesses back then, without really having any reliable ways to confirm these guesses.

But like I said, a lot has changed since then.

I've written a reasonably long explanation for why I think it is irresponsible to direct people to the deep dish calculator when they're trying to figure out how much dough to use, but I'm just gonna save it in my computer for now.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2012, 05:30:35 PM »
Ryan,

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion. If you think the deep-dish dough calculating tool has become wrong-headed, you might want to bring this matter to Steve's attention and convince him that it should be deleted. Others who feel similarly as you do should feel free to do likewise.

Peter

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2012, 02:29:06 PM »
Garyd and anyone else who may be interested in this:

I've created a very useful spreadsheet that helps you determine how much dough, cheese, and sauce to use for any size deep dish pizza, just by entering a handful of numbers. This spreadsheet helps you figure out important information that pizzamaking.com's deep dish calculator can't tell you. Like how much dough you should use if you intend for the sides of your crust to be a different thickness than the bottom of the crust.

Since you cannot enter this information into the pizzamaking.com calculator, the pizzamaking.com calculator assumes you want the bottom and the sides of your crust to be equal thickness, as if you intend to sheet your dough. However, uniform thickness between the bottom and the sides is not characteristic of the most popular style of deep dish (Malnati's/Uno style). Consequently, if you use the pizzamaking.com deep dish calculator to help you determine how much dough you need for any given size of deep dish pizza, it will always spit out a bigger number than what is appropriate for a Malnati's/Uno style pizza. With larger pizzas, based on a standard deep dish thickness, the pizzamaking.com calculator instructs you to use several ounces more dough than you really want to use.

I solved this problem by creating a calulator that asks for important deep dish information, like 1) the thickness of the bottom of the skin; 2) the thickness of the rim; and 3) how high the rim will extend above the rest of the skin (rather than an imprecise estimate of the total height of the rim). With this calculator there is no guesswork. It gives you precise answers to the precise information you feed it. And if you want the sides to be the same thickness as the bottom (to simulate a sheeted skin or the pizzamaking.com deep dish calculator), all you have to do is plug in the same TF for the bottom and the sides.

What I'm about to share with you is much easier than it looks. All you have to do is open a spreadsheet document, then copy and paste the following information into the cells that I've indicated, then make a few format changes, and you'll be ready to go. Once you finish, you'll have a useful tool that took me a lot of work to create. (Important: Delete the quotation marks after you paste the information into your spreadsheet.)

A1="3.14159265"
A2="Thickness Factor?"
A3="How high will the rim extend above the flat dough?"
A4="Thickness factor of the rim?"
A5="Bowl residue?"
A6="Width of exposed outer crust"
A7="Cheese Density"
A8="Sauce Density"
A9=[Blank]
A10="Size"
A11=[Don't do anything to this cell yet. I'll tell you what to do with this cell later.]

B10="Dough"
B11="=((A1*(A11/2*A11/2))*F2)+(A1*A11*F4*F3)"
B12="=((A1*(A11/2*A11/2))*F2)+(A1*A11*F4*F3)+((F5/100)*B11)"

C10="Cheese"
C11="=(A1*((A11-(F6*2))/2)*((A11-(F6*2))/2))*F7"

D10="Sauce"
D11="=(A1*((A11-(F6*2))/2)*((A11-(F6*2))/2))*F8"

E10="Total"
E11="=SUM(B11:D11)"

F2=Right-click on this cell and choose "Format Cells." On the "Format Cells" menu, click on the "Fill" tab and fill the background color of this cell with a very light pastel color to indicate that this cell is used to enter information. Then right-click on this cell again and choose "Format Cells." On the "Format Cells" menu, click on the "Border" tab. On the "Border" menu, choose the narrowest solid line and click the "Outline" box.

Select Cell F2 and copy.

F3=Paste that information into this cell.
F4=Paste
F5=Paste
F6=Paste
F7=Paste
F8=Paste
Also paste this information into Cell A11.

G2="oz per square inch"
G3="inch"
G4="oz per square inch"
G5="%"
G6="inch"
G7="oz per square inch"
G8="oz per square inch"

Select all the cells in Row 10 that contain text (first five cells). Make them bold.

Select cell A1 and change the font color to a very light gray, because you don't want this cell to distract you, but you do want to know it's there (so you don't accidentally delete it or something).

You're done, except for any format changes you choose to make (like alignment and decimal expression). I just followed my own directions and it worked fine. It took me about 5 minutes to do this, but it'll probably take you a little longer. Also, since I've already followed these instructions, I know none of the information has any mistakes. So if it doesn't come out right for you, it wasn't me who screwed up. Try again.

Also, the reason there are two figures under "Dough" is because the first one is your target weight and the second one is the total weight of your ingredients if you added a bowl residue figure.

If anyone tries this out, please comment to let me know how it worked for you.

Offline weemis

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2012, 02:41:50 PM »
And there is nothing personal in what I'm about to say, but I think the dough calculator leans pretty heavily in the wrong direction. Surely it was tremendously helpful when it was created, but a lot has changed since then. Home pizzamakers had to make a lot of guesses back then, without really having any reliable ways to confirm these guesses.

But like I said, a lot has changed since then.

I've written a reasonably long explanation for why I think it is irresponsible to direct people to the deep dish calculator when they're trying to figure out how much dough to use, but I'm just gonna save it in my computer for now.

you snarky prick  ;)
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline mrmojo1

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Re: How much dough for 12 in. pan?
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2012, 09:45:35 PM »
At the time of the design of the deep-dish dough calculating tool, Mike (Boy Hits Car) and I were aware of the fact that pizza operators like Giordano's and others were using dough sheeters/rollers to form their skins with a uniform thickness. Also, we were aware that several of our members were using rolling pins to roll out their skins. We also knew that some members had sloping-sided pans rather than straight-sided pans. And the instructions for some of the recipes called for the skins to be formed up the sides of pans to different heights. We spent a fair amount of time identifying as many deep-dish recipes as we could and all of the ingredients that were used to make deep-dish doughs. We never gave any thought to using different thickness factors for the parts of skins that go up the side of the pans as opposed to the bottom. In retrospect, I am not sure how we would have addressed that issue. As a last minute thought, we decided to try to cover the stuffed pizza deep dish option. All things considered, we were pleased with what we did. It does not bother or offend me in the least if some people find fault with the tool. We always intended that the tool be used with proven dough formulations and that members experiment with their doughs and their pizzas (see the discussion at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4931.msg41756.html#msg41756). The deep dish dough calculating tool is just a tool like any other tool.

Peter


Peter, I love the dough calculator!  I have used it many times now and it as always worked wonderfully for me!  Big thanks to you and all that have worked on it!  and thanks for all the great insights, recipes, and advice!  love this site! 


 

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