Author Topic: Craig's Detroit Pizza  (Read 32963 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2012, 11:00:02 AM »
craig, that is a Delicious looking pie. do you add any oregano to the sauce. ate at a Neapolitan inspired pizzeria last night that added a little Sicilian oregan and it was quite good. i am going to give this Detroit pie a try. not far from the Detroit area might take a road trip to try it first hand buddy and shields is that right?

Thanks, Larry. The only time I add oregano is when I use pepperoni or sopressata, or on a maranara. I think you'll like Detroit Style.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2012, 06:59:09 PM »
This was an 8 hour ADY version. Not bad, however I thought my previous 24 hour SD version was an order of magnitude better in every way.

67% KABF + 33% KAAP
80% water
3% oil
2% salt
0.15% ADY

The dough was mixed by hand, divided, and placed in the pans to rise. The first couple hours were at 71F, but I didn't think it was going to get there, so the last 5 or so were at 85F. I used a different (older - 12mo - and sharper) white cheddar and it didn't brown as well or taste as good as the younger cheese (6mo) I used last time.

The plain pie had Calabrian chilies and oil under the sauce.
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2012, 07:36:36 PM »
.... Not bad, however I thought my previous 24 hour SD version was an order of magnitude better in every way....



Well it doesn't look an order of magnitude lesser than the other ones.  I guess I'll have to take your word for it, though.  Nice cheesebrownization.
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2012, 08:08:57 PM »
Well it doesn't look an order of magnitude lesser than the other ones.  I guess I'll have to take your word for it, though.  Nice cheesebrownization.
That should be added to the Pizza Glossary.... 8)
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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2012, 10:45:48 PM »
..... I used a different (older - 12mo - and sharper) white cheddar and it didn't brown as well or taste as good as the younger cheese (6mo) I used last time.....


Crap, your aging your own cheese now?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2012, 10:49:47 PM »
Crap, your aging your own cheese now?

No, the 6 was from Kroger and the 12 was fom HEB.
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2012, 06:59:12 AM »
Looks great Craig. Put the cheese on first, leave an edge, and you have an L&B pie, only better!

John

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2012, 08:27:04 AM »
Looks great Craig. Put the cheese on first, leave an edge, and you have an L&B pie, only better!

John

Thanks, John. These are cheese first, but no empty edge of course. I do like this style a little more than L&B.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline deb415611

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2012, 10:37:40 AM »
Now i'm going to have to look into a new type of pizza - gee thanks Craig...

I'd like a slice of that pepperoni pizza.... 

 is that VT cure?
Deb


Offline timell

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2012, 11:18:34 AM »
This was an 8 hour ADY version. Not bad, however I thought my previous 24 hour SD version was an order of magnitude better in every way.


Dang it Craig!  Order of magnitude better?  Done. Ischia Sourdough starter ordered.  :D

Keep up the great work.
Tim

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2012, 07:16:53 PM »
100% KABF
80% HR
3% evoo
2% salt
2% Ischia culture

14 hours at 77F in bulk + another 9 in the pans. It was close to being over-risen. 300g dough/pan.  Baked at 525F for 12-13min. The taste and texture of the ~24 hour KABF/Ischia crust is incredible. After three bakes, the pans are starting to get really non-stick.

I wish I could figure hot how to get the cheese crust a little darker.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 09:32:26 PM by TXCraig1 »
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2012, 07:17:24 PM »
More
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 09:32:57 PM by TXCraig1 »
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2012, 07:17:47 PM »
More:
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 09:33:28 PM by TXCraig1 »
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Don K

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2012, 12:52:23 AM »
What's the dark stuff that looks like Hershey's syrup?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2012, 12:58:17 AM »
What's the dark stuff that looks like Hershey's syrup?

Balsamic vinegar and a little sugar reduced. Fig preserves under the prosciutto.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Don K

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2012, 01:05:24 AM »
That closeup crumb shot looks incredible!
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2012, 08:21:32 AM »
You have yourself a new category of pizza. I love the crumb and height of the pie, and the dark, crusty exterior is so appealing. Great toppings as well.

Your pans are really good performers. I don't think my blue steel could handle 525 for that long without burning the crap out of the bottom.

John
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 10:26:54 AM by dellavecchia »


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2012, 08:44:27 AM »
Thanks guys.

John, I've been surprised with the pans as well. Even at 550F, the bottom only lightly browns. I'd really like to figure out how to consistently get a darker cheese edge crust.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2012, 10:18:42 AM »
Not sure if this has been covered already, but are you baking in your kitchen or the Accunto?   If baking in your kitchen oven, are you placing the pans on a preheated stone or just the rack?

IMO, you could achieve some more crust darkness by supplying more heat to the pan via a thermal reservoir like a stone.

That said, I'm not sure why you want more edge browning.  Those pies look just about perfect to me.
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2012, 10:27:43 AM »
I'd really like to figure out how to consistently get a darker cheese edge crust.

Oil the sides of the pan? Might generate some more caramelization.

John

Offline Don K

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2012, 10:34:09 AM »
How heavy did you put the Crisco in the pan?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2012, 10:46:07 AM »
Not sure if this has been covered already, but are you baking in your kitchen or the Accunto?   If baking in your kitchen oven, are you placing the pans on a preheated stone or just the rack?

IMO, you could achieve some more crust darkness by supplying more heat to the pan via a thermal reservoir like a stone.

That said, I'm not sure why you want more edge browning.  Those pies look just about perfect to me.

In the oven with no stone.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2012, 10:46:48 AM »
How heavy did you put the Crisco in the pan?

It's butter-flavored Crisco and I laid it on pretty good. It's not solid white or anything, but you can definitely see it.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline timell

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2012, 11:18:14 AM »
Craig,

Here's the results that I got last night with three different cheeses.

Three vertical stripes of cheese from left to right:  Wisconsin Brick, Mild Wisconsin Cheddar, Sharp NY Cheddar.
All purchased from Central Market, along with the VT Pepperoni :D  Raw, the Brick cheese had little flavor while the Sharp stood
out, on the baked pie, the flavors were very similar, with the sharp being most pronounced.

As you can see in the photo, the Brick browned the most while the NY Sharp did not.

525 degree oven 13min. 240g dough in an 8x8 cake pan lightly greased with Crisco.
dough recipe is basically using your percentages (80%HR w/3% ischia 36hr @RT  12hr bulk 24hr pan). 
I think the crust was a little undercooked, because I wanted a little more interior crunch and height. 
(didn't get the crumb shots as I was already eating)
The good news is that I get to try again tonight.  This time I'll place the pans on a pizza stone.

Tim

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Craig's Detroit Pizza
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2012, 11:32:16 AM »
I'd really like to figure out how to consistently get a darker cheese edge crust.

Craig,

You appear to have the right pans, and they apparently have been properly and adequately seasoned and you appear not to have experienced sticking problems or removing the baked pizzas from the pans, so the answer must lie elsewhere. Looking at the Via 313 Youtube video at , you will note that at about 0:26 Brandon Hunt sprinkles the cheese rather loosely and liberally around the edges of the pan. He does likewise at about 1:30 in another YouTube video, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nFthReFgxxA. We also know from the Slice article at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/11/via-313-detroit-pizza-in-austin-texas.html that Via 313 greases its pans with some form of shortening, and the shortening covers a good part of the sides of the pans. The Via 313 pizzas are baked in a countertop Bakers Pride oven, with a thin ceramic stone, at about 525 degrees for about 15 minutes.

Buddy's also places the cheese (brick cheese) around the edges of the pans before finishing dressing the pizza, as shown at http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg. The pans are oiled with a vegetable oil, or a vegetable oil blend. Buddy's uses an infrared conveyor oven that is supposed to emulate the results achieved using a deck oven, which is what Buddy's used before switching to conveyor ovens. The infrared elements apparently control the top and bottom heat to achieve the desired results, including the degree to which the cheeses caramelize. Buddy's uses a bake temperature of around 495 degrees F for about 11-12 minutes. Norma's Buddy's clone pizzas have been subjected to a similar bake profile but with a somewhat higher oven temperature. She managed to get good results no matter what type of oven she used, both home ovens and her deck oven at work. She also got good results without using a stone in one of the home ovens she used (hers and her mother's).

Some members have speculated that Buddy's uses Parmesan cheese around the edges of the pans to get the caramelization effects but there has been no evidence that that is true. However, the type of cheese and its inherent caramelization characteristics may affect the degree to which the cheese caramelizes. We know that some of the other Detroit style places use cheeses other than brick cheese, including mozzarella cheese and Jack cheese, and they apparently get good caramelization of the cheese, at least from the photos I have seen (e.g., at http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=35487).

I'm sure that you already know a lot of what is set forth above. I am only trying to frame the issue and possibly lead to something we have missed.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 07:03:49 PM by Pete-zza »