Author Topic: Craig's Detroit Pizza (Read 8244 times)

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #100 on:** November 30, 2012, 12:47:08 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on November 30, 2012, 12:36:12 PM

Craig,

If you go back to the Saveur 313 video again, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nFthReFgxxA, and this time look at the cheese arrangement at 1:49, you will see that it's shredded cheese on the edges and diced in the middle.

Peter

Yes, I saw that. I was just referring to using shreds on the edge in my comment. To this point, I've shredded the mozz too. Do you think diced may be better in the center for just the opposite reason - that it might brown slower? I'm not sure how I would go about dicing mozz or where I could buy it diced already.

pizzaneer · « **Reply #101 on:** November 30, 2012, 12:57:31 PM »

Chef's knife, cutting board, large-bore shredder. Chop the length equal to the width.

Don K · « **Reply #102 on:** November 30, 2012, 01:27:53 PM »

When I make mine later today, I plan on using my coarse Wonder Shredder for the cheese in the middle and a fine shred for the edge cheese.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #103 on:** November 30, 2012, 01:33:45 PM »

Quote from: TXCraig1 on November 30, 2012, 12:47:08 PM

Yes, I saw that. I was just referring to using shreds on the edge in my comment. To this point, I've shredded the mozz too. Do you think diced may be better in the center for just the opposite reason - that it might brown slower? I'm not sure how I would go about dicing mozz or where I could buy it diced already.

Craig,

Originally I had read (maybe over at the Buddy's/Shield's thread) that Buddy's used shredded cheese, but when I saw the photo at http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08Mf788bNv6xv/340x.jpg, it seemed that the cheese was more like a diced cheese or a short shred cheese. From the photos that Norma posted of the Buddy's half-baked cheese and pepperoni pizza that she recently purchased, it was clear that the Buddy's cheese (brick cheese) is diced. According to Mike at Klausie's in NC, brick cheese is the best for both melting and getting the browned crispy cheese effect, so maybe it doesn't have to be shredded, although from the photo at http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/09/behind-the-slice-klausies-pizza-truck.html, it looks like the cheese that Mike uses is shredded.

The way that I dice cheeses is to use my food processor. I found that it also helps that the cheese be on the cool side and that it be cut in chunks before adding to the processor bowl. I found that I could get whatever size dice I wanted based on how long I ran the food processor. I had a lot of practice doing this sort of thing when I was reverse engineering and cloning the Papa John's pizza. The cheese that they use on their pizzas is diced (it comes that way from Leprino's).

Peter

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #104 on:** November 30, 2012, 01:35:32 PM »

Quote from: TXCraig1 on November 30, 2012, 12:44:32 PM

Thanks Chau,

Yes, for sure the cheese crust is from contact with the pan. I think the thin steel pans work well because they heat pretty fast and go to work on the cheese. Thin dark aluminium may work better, but I have no idea where to find such a thing. Cast iron might not work well as it will take some time to heat.

Correct, no sauce between the dough and cheese.

CL

Take a look here...I've bought from this site and the American Metalcraft is quality stuff.

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/american-metalcraft-hcsq1210-12-x-12-x-1-square-hard-coat-pizza-pan/124HCSQ1210.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=124HCSQ1210&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CKSg8Oio97MCFQkFnQod9EUAVQ

Pete-zza · « **Reply #105 on:** November 30, 2012, 02:02:49 PM »

Quote from: Chicago Bob on November 30, 2012, 01:35:32 PM

Take a look here...I've bought from this site and the American Metalcraft is quality stuff.

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/american-metalcraft-hcsq1210-12-x-12-x-1-square-hard-coat-pizza-pan/124HCSQ1210.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=124HCSQ1210&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CKSg8Oio97MCFQkFnQod9EUAVQ

Bob,

The Detroit style pans are over 2" deep and while the dough may not reach 2" (Buddy's says 2"-3", although I doubt the 3" number), it does get over 1", and you want physical contact of the cheese at the perimeter with the sides of the pan to create the crispy cheese effect. The Detroit style pans that are most comparable to the AM dark anodized pans are the ones from Lloyd Pans, at http://www.lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/rectangular-pans-and-disks/detroit-style-deep-dish. The Lloyd Detroit style pans are not used by many of the pizza operators who specialize in the Detroit style of pizza but they are of the same sizes as used by such operators. For authenticity, the members should be getting the steel pans as sold by the Detroit Style Pizza Co at http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/, for a fraction of the price that Lloyd pans charges.

Peter

norma427 · « **Reply #106 on:** November 30, 2012, 02:05:00 PM »

I think Peter posted about using a diced blend of cheese at Reply 1 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4092.msg34170.html#msg34170 and November had another idea of crumbling cheese at Reply 2 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4092.msg34176.html#msg34176 November also posted about trying a grinder at Reply 7 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5728.msg48592.html#msg48592

I did use a Universal food grinder/chopper at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,9961.msg86592.html#msg86592 I might try another attachment on my Universal food chopper, but don’t really think it matters if the cheese is diced or shredded. At least on the DS pies I have made so far it didn’t seem to matter.

Norma

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #107 on:** November 30, 2012, 02:16:19 PM »

Quote from: Pete-zza on November 30, 2012, 02:02:49 PM

Bob,

The Detroit style pans are over 2" deep and while the dough may not reach 2" (Buddy's says 2"-3", although I doubt the 3" number), it does get over 1", and you want physical contact of the cheese at the perimeter with the sides of the pan to create the crispy cheese effect. The Detroit style pans that are most comparable to the AM dark anodized pans are the ones from Lloyd Pans, at http://www.lloydpans.com/standard-pans/pizza-tools/rectangular-pans-and-disks/detroit-style-deep-dish. The Lloyd Detroit style pans are not used by many of the pizza operators who specialize in the Detroit style of pizza but they are of the same sizes as used by such operators. For authenticity, the members should be getting the steel pans as sold by the Detroit Style Pizza Co at http://detroitstylepizza.co/detroit-style-pizza-pans/, for a fraction of the price that Lloyd pans charges.

Peter

They have other sizes...just tossing out ideas to address the side browning/crustyness issue some have mentioned.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #108 on:** November 30, 2012, 03:34:46 PM »

Quote from: Chicago Bob on November 30, 2012, 02:16:19 PM

They have other sizes...

Bob,

That is true but after looking at the square pans at the AM website at http://www.amnow.com/Pizza-Trays/Square-Deep-Dish-Pans/Square-Deep-Dish-Pans, I see a lot of dark hard coat anodized pans but none in the 8" x 10" and 10" x 14" sizes that are the standard in the Detroit style trade. Also, the maximum depth of the pans is 2". Don't get me wrong. I love the dark anodized pans and have a few of them from Pizzatools (the sister company to Lloyd Pans) but for those who are trying to emulate the classic, authentic Detroit style pizza that has been made for over 66 years, the better way to go in my opinion is with the cheap steel pans. Buddy's claims to have some of those pans that have been in use for over 50 years. That may be hype on their part but apparently the pans hold their age well.

Peter

tinroofrusted · « **Reply #109 on:** December 01, 2012, 09:26:55 AM »

Craig's photos of his Detroit style pizza were making me pretty hungry so I had to try it out for myself. I made up the dough at 80% hydration (following the recipe Craig posted at the beginning of this thread) and left it on the counter all day (about 12 hours).

I got home late, etc., and things didn't work out for making the pizza correctly by letting it rise in the pan, or even cooking up more than one. So I had to make do with a single pizza quickly cooked in the toaster oven at 400 degrees. The topping on half of it is mushrooms. As you will see it didn't stretch all the way to the edges, but I have to say the flavor was really good. I am going to do a few more tonight and will hopefully have more time to get the dough risen properly.

I went out and bought some brick cheese, something I never even knew existed prior to reading this thread. I got some at Bristol Farms. It has the aroma and flavor of a very ripe brie, slightly ammonia. I didn't really care for the flavor right out of the wrapping, but once it was cooked up on the pizza it really tasted great. Does a proper brick cheese have a fairly strong ammonia aroma? This one did anyway.

I didn't have quite the right pan for Detroit style pizza, so I dropped by Sur La Table to see if they had some dark steel pans. Negative. But they did have a pretty heavy 8x8 cake pan made of aluminized, corrugated steel. It has a non-stick finish too. So I bought that and gave it a try. Seemed to work OK. The pizza didn't stick to the pan at all.

Regards,

TinRoof

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #110 on:** December 01, 2012, 10:14:43 AM »

Quote from: tinroofrusted on December 01, 2012, 09:26:55 AM

I went out and bought some brick cheese, something I never even knew existed prior to reading this thread. I got some at Bristol Farms. It has the aroma and flavor of a very ripe brie, slightly ammonia. I didn't really care for the flavor right out of the wrapping, but once it was cooked up on the pizza it really tasted great. Does a proper brick cheese have a fairly strong ammonia aroma? This one did anyway.

It seems brick can vary widely from one to another. Some are young, some are old, some are washed rind, some are not. The one I tried was young - sweet and mild - not too dissimilar from mozzarella. I've read that the older washed rind brick cheeses can be similar to Limburger and in fact draw their lineage back to that infamous cheese. It sounds like that is what you had. This makes it sound like the type you had is the more "authentic" brick cheese: http://www.widmerscheese.com/pages/The-Story-of-Wisconsin-Brick-Cheese.html

tinroofrusted · « **Reply #111 on:** December 01, 2012, 10:29:59 AM »

Quote from: TXCraig1 on December 01, 2012, 10:14:43 AM

This makes it sound like the type you had is the more "authentic" brick cheese: http://www.widmerscheese.com/pages/The-Story-of-Wisconsin-Brick-Cheese.html

Yes, I just checked the packaging and it is from Widmer's Cheese Cellars, so I guess I got the real thing. The cheese guy at Bristol Farms kind of warned me about it. He said "Don't be afraid of this cheese; it has kind of a strong smell, but that's how it's supposed to smell. Kind of like Limburger". And when I smelled it I definitely knew what he was talking about. But it's pretty darn tasty once you get it on the pizza. A very unique flavor. I combined the Brick cheese with some Irish Cheddar. That's a good combination! I'm looking forward to trying some more tonight!

Have a great Saturday, Craig! Are you making pizzas tonight?

TinRoof

timell · « **Reply #112 on:** December 02, 2012, 01:56:46 PM »

I stopped by Central Market yesterday to pick up some Vermont Pepperoni for tonight's pizzas, and while in the store I took a closer look at the brick cheese that I bought last time. While digger further back on the display shelf, I found a large block with a label from which the brick cheese was cut.

It's Wilmot Farms Brick Cheese.

tinroofrusted · « **Reply #113 on:** December 02, 2012, 02:34:01 PM »

Last night I had time to bake up four or so Detroit style pizzas. I let the dough rise in the pan for a couple of hours before baking at 400 (convection mode) in the kitchen oven. I used up the rest of the brick cheese and went with aged Irish Cheddar around the edges. Coconut oil on the bottom of the pans before putting in the dough. I was really happy with the outcome. My family all thought it was great too, although they did ask about the calorie count...

Regards,

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #114 on:** December 12, 2012, 01:11:05 PM »

Craig,
Is there a formula for converting a recipe from starter into bakers yeast(idy,ady)? For your 2% starter used here in a Detroit pizza I am guessing probably around 1% would be about right and then for the cake/fresh yeast that I am going to try I will double that amount.
But I am wondering if there is a mathamatical way of doing the conversion that would work universally.
Thank you!

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #115 on:** December 12, 2012, 02:10:21 PM »

Quote from: Chicago Bob on December 12, 2012, 01:11:05 PM

Craig,
Is there a formula for converting a recipe from starter into bakers yeast(idy,ady)? For your 2% starter used here in a Detroit pizza I am guessing probably around 1% would be about right and then for the cake/fresh yeast that I am going to try I will double that amount.
But I am wondering if there is a mathamatical way of doing the conversion that would work universally.
Thank you!

Bob, for my Ischia in the 60-75F range, I would say it is aproximately: 1% Ischia = 0.015% IDY, 0.02% ADY, or 0.05% CY.

So, I would estimate that 2% Ischia = 0.1% CY.

If you use 2% CY, I think you will be off by a factor of about 20X.

Craig

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #116 on:** December 12, 2012, 03:01:40 PM »

I meant that I would double whatever the weight that 1% idy worked out to be.
I believe Norma is up to .8% idy now so I thought I'd try upping it to 1% to speed things up for a same day counter rise. Bad idea?

Don K · « **Reply #117 on:** December 12, 2012, 06:43:52 PM »

Bob, for the Detroit that I made yesterday, I used 0.3% IDY for a 5 hour RT rise (already in the pans). I think that the conversion from IDY to CY is about 3:1, so that would be 0.9% CY. You could probably go with 1%.

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #118 on:** December 12, 2012, 06:51:28 PM »

Thank you Don.
And yes, the conversion from idy to cy is about 3:1. file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Owner/My%20Documents/My%20eBooks/Yeast%20Conversion%20Table.htm

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #119 on:** December 14, 2012, 04:29:02 PM »

Same formula at last time, but I baked at 525F.