Author Topic: Flour increase in poolish  (Read 2394 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2098
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Flour increase in poolish
« on: November 13, 2012, 11:14:01 PM »
So I accidently added more flour than normal into my poolish.  I normally add 33% of my total flour and this time I put in 46%.  What can I expect to happen with ferment times.  Will they be faster or slower?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 11:18:33 PM »
Somebody much smarter than me will chime in, but...  I might assume that the same amount of yeasties live in any given weight  of starter.  Thick or thin.  I would doubt that you would see much difference, if any.  My starter seems to enjoy a bit more flour than the 50/50 mix some people use.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12724
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 11:25:10 PM »
I would think slower. Yeast is less concentrated and poolish less hydrated. Both should slow things down.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2098
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 11:25:32 PM »
I actually saw a huge difference.  It's been fermenting for 14hrs now and it looks like 28hr.  I was hoping someone could tell me why this is?
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 11:26:51 PM »
I would think slower. Yeast is less concentrated and poolish less hydrated. Both should slow things down.

You got a curve for that too?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline mkevenson

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2278
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Roos! Protector of Fowl
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 11:27:54 PM »
Somebody much smarter than me will chime in, but...  I might assume that the same amount of yeasties live in any given weight  of starter.  Thick or thin.  I would doubt that you would see much difference, if any.  My starter seems to enjoy a bit more flour than the 50/50 mix some people use.

Sorry, I am new, but is poolish and starter  the same?

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12724
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 11:32:41 PM »
Sorry, I am new, but is poolish and starter  the same?

Mark

I think most of the time people use "starter" they are talking about a natural starter/sourdough. Check out the glossary for better definitions.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12724
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 11:33:16 PM »
I actually saw a huge difference.  It's been fermenting for 14hrs now and it looks like 28hr.  I was hoping someone could tell me why this is?

Are you saying it is going twice as fast?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline mkevenson

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2278
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Roos! Protector of Fowl
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 11:55:51 PM »
I think most of the time people use "starter" they are talking about a natural starter/sourdough. Check out the glossary for better definitions.

The only reason I ask is that in reply #1 of this post, Jet-Deck, seems to be using the term Starter the same as poolish, the original topic of this thread.

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2012, 12:00:32 AM »
I actually saw a huge difference.  It's been fermenting for 14hrs now and it looks like 28hr.  

So you are asking after the fact as what to expect? (After you had seen the outcome at 14 hours ? )

What is the temperature of the dough or the room where it is right now?  Is it the same as last time?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends


Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2012, 12:02:23 AM »
The only reason I ask is that in reply #1 of this post, Jet-Deck, seems to be using the term Starter the same as poolish, the original topic of this thread.

Mark

I may have interpreted what the OP meant incorrectly.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 12:04:25 AM »
POOLISH: A French term with Polish origins that is used to mean a preferment that is made with equal amounts of flour and water (which produces a pancake-like batter with a hydration of 100%), and a small amount of commercial yeast, but no salt. It is usually left to ferment and ripen at room temperature for several hours, although it is sometimes refrigerated for many hours (e.g., overnight) before incorporating into the final dough. The term poolish is pronounced poo-leash.

PREFERMENT: A partial preparation of flour and water and yeast (naturally-occurring or commercial), that may or may not include salt, that is left to ferment and mature before incorporating into the final dough. The ingredients and period of fermentation are controlled to achieve the desired leavening power and maturation (ripening) before incorporation into the final dough. The preferment can be fermented at room temperature or under refrigeration, or a combination of both. Depending on its final intended use, it can take a liquid form, semi-liquid form (like a batter) or it can be stiff and dough-like. The benefits from using a preferment include a strengthened gluten structure, a shortened overall production time, and superior crust flavor.

According to the glossary, PREFERMENT = STARTER

« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 12:08:52 AM by Jet_deck »
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline mkevenson

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2278
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Santa Rosa, Ca
  • Roos! Protector of Fowl
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2012, 12:12:33 AM »
Somebody much smarter than me will chime in, but...  I might assume that the same amount of yeasties live in any given weight  of starter.  Thick or thin.  I would doubt that you would see much difference, if any.  My starter seems to enjoy a bit more flour than the 50/50 mix some people use.

Poolish, starter, preferment. Different definitions sometimes used a synonymous processes?
Just trying to understand, not cause dissent.

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

jamie

  • Guest
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2012, 12:16:28 AM »
Not to get too OT but a Preferment is exactly that:- some portion of the flour that has been PREfermented. It is not defined BY natural yeast/sourdough but can include either of those.

Poolish and Biga are both examples of preferments.

The classic application of a preferment is in COMBINATION with additional yeast in the final dough.

When the preferment contains natural yeast and is also the sole leavening agent in the final dough, it is called a levain or  sometimes just referred to as starter.

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 12:18:42 AM »
Poolish, starter, preferment. Different definitions sometimes used a synonymous processes?
Just trying to understand, not cause dissent.

Mark

There is do dissent.  The terms are used wrongly all the time, by nearly everyone.  Peter has posted alot about this.  I will find you more reading material tomorrow. No problems, really.
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

jamie

  • Guest
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 12:23:43 AM »
To address pythonic's original question:

I'd agree with Craig's prediction of a lower hydration preferment being slower overall.

What might be observed as a "faster" rise with a lower hydration could be misleading. It's possible that you are seeing a  more dramatic visible increase in volume unhindered by the higher proteolytic activity of a more liquid poolish. The overall yeast activity might still be lower.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 12:35:18 AM by jamie »

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2098
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 12:49:01 AM »
When I use less flour in my poolish the doughball goes flat and takes roughly 12 hours before it starts to rise.  There are very few visible tiny bubbles that I can see through the bottom of the container.  This time around the doughball didn't flatten as much and saw much larger bubbles through the bottom maybe only 6hrs into the cold rise.

Water and final dough temps were almost the same.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Jet_deck

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Between Houston and Mexico
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2012, 01:15:19 AM »
..... It's possible that you are seeing a  more dramatic visible increase in volume unhindered by the higher proteolytic activity of a more liquid poolish....

How could the poolish be more liquid, since he added more flour? ???
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

jamie

  • Guest
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2012, 01:18:30 AM »
How could the poolish be more liquid, since he added more flour? ???

Read what I wrote. I was talking about the lower hydration and how it would rise compared TO a more liquid poolish.

Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2628
Re: Flour increase in poolish
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2012, 06:27:53 AM »
The reason you are seeing more rise and larger bubbles is due to the lower hydration. The poolish is able to expand more due to the less liquid environment. You will need to time the readiness by when the poolish domes and starts to recede, not by amount of time elapsed.

John
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 06:30:09 AM by dellavecchia »