Author Topic: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven  (Read 4869 times)

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Offline Berner9

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NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« on: March 11, 2013, 06:58:41 PM »
http://www.campchef.com/blog/?p=8141

http://www.campchef.com/italia-artisan-pizza-oven.html

I just picked up a Camp Chef Expedition and actually found this website cause of it.  Looks like I will have to pick one up guys up.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 07:09:28 PM by Berner9 »


Offline shuboyje

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2013, 07:47:21 PM »
Never seen that one before.  As is I doubt it can out perform a home oven, but with a door to close up the front it could probably simulate a deck oven pretty well if the heat diffuser they mention is well designed and between the stone and the flame.
-Jeff

Offline mkevenson

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 07:50:24 PM »
I use a modified camp chef stove to heat my 2 stone. 60K BTU per burner gets it rockin'.
try 900+ F, don't know of a home oven that can do that, well, without major mods.
 
Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

scott123

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 08:12:19 PM »
As is I doubt it can out perform a home oven, but with a door to close up the front it could probably simulate a deck oven pretty well if the heat diffuser they mention is well designed and between the stone and the flame.

Jeff, deck ovens have wall channels that direct the heat to the ceiling and correct the imbalance of top to bottom heat. As far as I can tell, this doesn't have that. They also have front doors, that, to a fairly large extent, keep the heat in the oven.

Mark, performance is about more than just raw power.  900 degrees doesn't mean much if the bottom of the pizza burns before the top is done. A 2 stone has, to a point, built in deflection.  This has 'diffusers,' but without diagrams or photos, there's no way of knowing if the oven has balanced heat.  The complete lack of any undercrust photos only adds to the heat balance mystery.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 08:53:51 PM »
In my opinion good diffusers between the stone and the flame are a much bigger factor in an even bake then the side walls.  I think the sidewalls function more to eliminate hot spots on the sides of the oven, but am open to conversation of that.
-Jeff

Offline mkevenson

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2013, 11:20:45 AM »


Mark, performance is about more than just raw power.  900 degrees doesn't mean much if the bottom of the pizza burns before the top is done. A 2 stone has, to a point, built in deflection.  This has 'diffusers,' but without diagrams or photos, there's no way of knowing if the oven has balanced heat.  The complete lack of any undercrust photos only adds to the heat balance mystery.

Scott, absolutely right. When measured the top and bottom stone are very close to the same temp, the bottom crust however at temps over 650 browns more rapidly, hence doming or insertion of a screen has helped recently.( At this time I have only gone to 900 + once, just to see if I could.)
I am also trying a different stone that I had cut down to 15" this week to see if there is a difference.

Mark
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 11:30:51 AM by mkevenson »
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Offline Reep

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 11:33:00 AM »
Yeah, these little stoves put out a ton of heat.  I've made my best blackened salmon on one of these.  I would not underestimate the oven until you try it.  I must get one of these.  Thanks for sharing this.  700 degrees rated. 

scott123

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 01:00:04 PM »
In my opinion good diffusers between the stone and the flame are a much bigger factor in an even bake then the side walls.  I think the sidewalls function more to eliminate hot spots on the sides of the oven, but am open to conversation of that.

Jeff, if you take a cordierite stone with an equally sized deflector and lit a smoke bomb below it, the smoke would travel up and around the stone, and, because of friction, the smoke would curl in a bit and contact the outer top edge of the stone. Hot air will follow a similar path.  The heat from the edge, via conduction, to a small extent, will drive up the temp on the rest of the stone (as well as create undesirable hot spots on the edges). The sidewalls prevent this.

I'm not necessarily saying that sidewalls are mandatory for making bottom heat scenarios work, but they are part of the reason why gas deck ovens generally have good heat balance.

I am also trying a different stone that I had cut down to 15" this week to see if there is a difference.

Mark, are you using a different stone by itself, or are you swapping out the bottom stone in the 2 stone? If it's swapping, the newer stone will most likely be more conductive, and thus exacerbate your top bottom heat issue at higher temps. There are no known commercial stones with less conductivity than the Fibrament stones that ship in the 2 stone grill insert. If you want to get into firebricks, there are certain brands of firebricks with lower conductivity that will handicap your bottom bake and allow you to push the grill to higher temps. At the same time though, the thickness of the firebricks will extend your preheats substantially.

Yeah, these little stoves put out a ton of heat.  I've made my best blackened salmon on one of these.  I would not underestimate the oven until you try it.  I must get one of these.  Thanks for sharing this.  700 degrees rated. 

Rich, as I told Mark, I don't doubt that this is a great little stove with loads of power. I am highly suspicious of the oven, though. Many forum members have attempted  LBEs with far more powerful burners and have run into heat balance issues. Spending this kind of money and getting a product with a heat balance that can't outperform a home oven, as Jeff pointed out, would be pretty horrible, in my opinion.

This being said, this is a very competitive price point for another 2 stone clone. If you want to risk your money on what I think is a pretty big gamble, if you were fortunate enough to end up with something that will give you a viable balanced New York style bake (Neapolitan is out of the question with a ceiling of that height, that material and these temperatures), it would be nice to have a less expensive 2 Stone competitor.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 01:26:02 PM by scott123 »

Offline Reep

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2013, 01:38:01 PM »
For me, I'm thinking of how much fun this would be for car camping.  My WFO will handle the home duties, but how much fun would it be to pump out NP pies in the campground. 

Offline oknewell

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2013, 01:47:02 PM »
Buy one and post some action pictures!  If you don't like it then you can always ebay/CL/sell the thing.  I would love to see that little oven in action.  It seems like it would be cool to bring to the beach/RV camping, etc. 


Offline mkevenson

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2013, 02:46:28 PM »
Scott, PM sent ;D


Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline shuboyje

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Re: NEW! Camp Chef Italia Artisan Pizza Oven
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2013, 07:43:01 PM »
I disagree.  When compressible gases make a 90 degree bend you will have a low pressure area formed in the inside radius and a high pressure formed at the outer radius(throat and heel in the lingo of my profession).  I know this both from my every day experience in the air moving business, but also through numerous CFD simulations I have done in the past of various 90 degree elbow configurations.  I really think to see the purpose of the sidewalls one only needs to look at pizza cooked on an LBE.  You generally see the outer edge of the rim with lots of color from the direct contact with the combustion gases, and then a pale halo as you move toward the center of the pie.  The sidewall eliminates the direct contact and thus eliminates the  excess coloration.

Let's do a CFD model of a deck oven.  I haven't done one in a while and always enjoy them.  Give me some dimensions and we can see what the air does.
Jeff, if you take a cordierite stone with an equally sized deflector and lit a smoke bomb below it, the smoke would travel up and around the stone, and, because of friction, the smoke would curl in a bit and contact the outer top edge of the stone. Hot air will follow a similar path.  The heat from the edge, via conduction, to a small extent, will drive up the temp on the rest of the stone (as well as create undesirable hot spots on the edges). The sidewalls prevent this.

I'm not necessarily saying that sidewalls are mandatory for making bottom heat scenarios work, but they are part of the reason why gas deck ovens generally have good heat balance.

Mark, are you using a different stone by itself, or are you swapping out the bottom stone in the 2 stone? If it's swapping, the newer stone will most likely be more conductive, and thus exacerbate your top bottom heat issue at higher temps. There are no known commercial stones with less conductivity than the Fibrament stones that ship in the 2 stone grill insert. If you want to get into firebricks, there are certain brands of firebricks with lower conductivity that will handicap your bottom bake and allow you to push the grill to higher temps. At the same time though, the thickness of the firebricks will extend your preheats substantially.

Rich, as I told Mark, I don't doubt that this is a great little stove with loads of power. I am highly suspicious of the oven, though. Many forum members have attempted  LBEs with far more powerful burners and have run into heat balance issues. Spending this kind of money and getting a product with a heat balance that can't outperform a home oven, as Jeff pointed out, would be pretty horrible, in my opinion.

This being said, this is a very competitive price point for another 2 stone clone. If you want to risk your money on what I think is a pretty big gamble, if you were fortunate enough to end up with something that will give you a viable balanced New York style bake (Neapolitan is out of the question with a ceiling of that height, that material and these temperatures), it would be nice to have a less expensive 2 Stone competitor.
-Jeff