Author Topic: Water Temperature in Commercial Mixer  (Read 1370 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pignolius

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Oregon
Water Temperature in Commercial Mixer
« on: November 19, 2012, 03:28:55 AM »
I've been making pizzas commercially, and the recipe has developed pretty organically through fiddling around and trying different techniques. I have a question regarding water temperature:

We've been hydrating active dry yeast in the total amount of h20 at 95F. After 15-20 minutes of reactivation, we combine the yeasty-water with the flour in a mixer for about 5 minutes. Then the dough rests for 15 minutes before we add salt and a last little bit of water to help the salt dissolve. Then the mixer resumes for another 5 minutes to incorporate.

It's a pretty generic straight dough, about 65% hydration, that is fermented in fridges anywhere from 24 to 96 hours.
I see people talk about a magic temperature for mixing dough, especially shooting lower to compensate for the heat generated in the mixing process. Our dough is definitely very warm (in the high eighties or nineties) after mixing. Aside from speeding up fermentation [giving us the desired sour flavor a little more quickly] are there disadvantages i'm not seeing to using such warm water?!?

All help is appreciated. Thanks!
OSK


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22453
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Water Temperature in Commercial Mixer
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 08:16:42 PM »
pignolius,

I find your question interesting. I'd like to take a stab at analyzing your situation.

To begin, when using ADY, Tom Lehmann generally advocates that one prehydrate ADY in warm water at a temperature of 100-105 degrees F for 10 minutes. See, for example, his PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=50956#p50956. Tom does not advocate that ADY be prehydrated in all of the formula water. Rather, he advocates that the amount of water to be used to prehydrate the ADY be around four to five times the weight of the ADY. See Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,16360.msg160246/topicseen.html#msg160246. The part of the formula water not used to prehydrate the ADY should be at a temperature to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 75-80 degrees F. That temperature range is generally considered to be optimum for yeast multiplication. See Table 4 at http://www.theartisan.net/dough_fermentation_and_temperature.htm.

One of the potential drawbacks of using all of the formula water at an elevated temperature is that it speeds up the fermentation process. As a result, there may be an imbalance between gas production (carbon dioxide) and gas retention. As is discussed under Fermentation Control at http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_Two.htm#Fermentation Control, you want the forces of gas production and retention to be in proper balance. If you look at the items listed at the end of the above section, you will see this for High Temperature:

High Temperature: This increases gas production and decreases gas retention. Low temperatures give strong doughs that rise slowly, while high temperatures give weak doughs that rise quickly. 

In addition to the above, I believe that the quality, and maybe even the quantity, of the byproducts of fermentation that contribute to the taste, flavor, color and texture of the finished crust are better/greater for a dough that is fermented more slowly than too quickly.

None of the above is to suggest that you change anything in your commercial operation, especially if you are satisfied with your results. However, if you decide to lower the water temperature to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 75-80 degrees F, your dough will ferment more slowly and not be ready to use at the same time as you use your regular dough with the higher water temperature. You would perhaps have to reduce the amount of yeast for the dough with the finished dough temperature of around 75-80 degrees F to be ready at about the same time as your current dough.

Peter


Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2630
Re: Water Temperature in Commercial Mixer
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 08:49:02 PM »
I agree with Peter. DDT in a commercial operation is more about consistency of product and workflow timing. Too high a temp is not desirable though. I believe you may be at the upper limit of that threshold.

John

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22453
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Water Temperature in Commercial Mixer
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 09:08:07 PM »
I perhaps should have added that for a cold fermentation application, the dough with a lower finished dough temperature will cool down faster than dough with a higher finished dough temperature. Depending on the amount of yeast, that might prevent the dough from blowing. But what John says is correct. In a commercial application, factors like yeast quantity and temperatures and the dough preparation and management procedures generally establish the window of usability of the dough.

Peter

Offline pignolius

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Water Temperature in Commercial Mixer
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 01:41:41 PM »
...the ADY should be at a temperature to achieve a finished dough temperature of around 75-80 degrees F. That temperature range is generally considered to be optimum for yeast multiplication. See Table 4 at http://www.theartisan.net/dough_fermentation_and_temperature.htm.

One of the potential drawbacks of using all of the formula water at an elevated temperature is that it speeds up the fermentation process. As a result, there may be an imbalance between gas production (carbon dioxide) and gas retention. As is discussed under Fermentation Control at http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_Two.htm#Fermentation Control, you want the forces of gas production and retention to be in proper balance. If you look at the items listed at the end of the above section, you will see this for High Temperature:

High Temperature: This increases gas production and decreases gas retention. Low temperatures give strong doughs that rise slowly, while high temperatures give weak doughs that rise quickly. 

Thanks for the helpful link. I'll need to reread this every night before bed for a year to get the gist, but it's a step in the right direction. In Section One of that treatise, in Table 4 it says that 79F is the Optimum Temperature For Yeast Multiplication. The dough I am making is then a bit too warm. However, in the same table it says that 95F is the Optimum Fermentation Temperature. This is just above my finished dough temperature. Do bakers, then tend to favor the lower temperature because healthy yeast multiplication is a higher priority than a predictable fermentation?

Any help appreciated. I'll post an update soon with how the dough behaves/changes with adjustments in temperature.
Thanks,
OSK

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22453
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Water Temperature in Commercial Mixer
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 02:54:29 PM »
Do bakers, then tend to favor the lower temperature because healthy yeast multiplication is a higher priority than a predictable fermentation?

OSK,

I wondered about that also. I think it is important to put the material I cited into context. More particularly, the materials I cited apply specifically to bread making. While there are a lot of similarities between bread making and pizza dough making, there are also several differences. For example, for bread making, the window of dough production and use tend to be quite short. As a basic example, according to a chart I found in Prof. Raymond Calvel's book, The Taste of Bread, at page 46, the window for preparing a straight dough for French bread is about 6 hours. It is even less for a bread dough made using the improved straight dough method (4 1/2 hours) or the straight dough method with intensive mixing (4 3/4 hours). Also, the balance between gas production and gas retention is arguably more important to bread production than pizza dough production because you want a dough with good volume and forming and shaping characteristics so that the finished bread is of good shape and volume. With pizza dough, at some point it is pressed flat to form a skin that is then dressed to make a pizza. Of course, you still want a good balance between gas production and gas retention so that you get a decent oven spring and a nice rim, but arguably those effects are not as pronounced or as important as with a loaf of bread.

As you know, it is possible to make a pizza dough that can be used in a couple of hours or after several days. For example, if you use a lot of yeast and water at a temperature high enough to achieve a high finished dough temperature, you can have a pizza ready to serve in about two hours. Alternatively, at the other extreme, if you use a small amount of yeast and water at a temperature low enough to achieve a low finished dough temperature, and then promptly put the dough balls into the cooler, the dough can make it out to several days before using. In the first example, the dough experiences a rapid fermentation which may predominate over yeast multiplication, whereas in the second example, the yeast multiplication will predominate over the fermentation rate. While some people might prefer the pizza made in a couple of hours over one made a few days later, I think that most people would say that the pizza made using a dough that fermented over the course of a few days will produce a pizza that tastes better because of the increased fermentation byproducts that contribute to the taste, flavor, color, aroma and texture of the finished crust.

As I see it, what you do depends on what kind of pizza you want to make and when you want it to be ready. The first step is to find a good recipe that is balanced in the ingredients used and their quantities. By balance, I mean not using ingredients that are well out of range for the type of pizza to be made and are also in balance with respect to each other. Once that objective is achieved, it becomes a matter of adjusting the values of the ingredients, especially the yeast, and all of the applicable temperatures, including the temperature of the water and the finished dough temperature, plus any initial proofing of the dough, to produce the dough so that is ready to use when you want it.

Peter

Offline pignolius

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: Oregon
Re: Water Temperature in Commercial Mixer
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 03:39:11 AM »
Thanks for the advice. After testing a dough with an end temp of 79F vs a dough with 89F i've noticed very little difference after a 3 day cold ferment. Perhaps, they would be more pronounced if the dough was used the next day? The dough still rises plenty to form a puffy, bread-like cornicone.