Author Topic: Cold Rise Expiration Dates?  (Read 1388 times)

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Offline TomN

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Cold Rise Expiration Dates?
« on: November 21, 2012, 02:10:23 PM »
I was wondering what is the longest you can go with dough that has had a cold rise and has been kept in the fridge? Can you go beyond a week, etc??? Also, how can yo tell when the dough is going bad? Color, flecks in the dough, etc??? Thank you for the comments.

PS
I have some dough that has been in the fridge for a week now. It looks good, but i just want to be careful. The longest i have gone is four days on my dough before using it.


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Cold Rise Expiration Dates?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2012, 02:37:56 PM »
TomM,

Back in 2007, in response to a post by a member pizzanerd at the PMQ Think Tank at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=26961#p26961, this is what Tom Lehmann said: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?p=26964#p26964. Maybe since then he has seen older cold fermented doughs.

I have gone out to around 23 days of cold fermentation, and both Norma and Tscarborough (Tom) have gone out even further. As far as I can tell, Norma and Tom and I are still alive, although there had been no formal vote on that.

According to what member November reported at Reply 54 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3980.msg33233/topicseen.html#msg33233, the University of North Dakota gave an outside window of up to a month for a refrigerated dough.

Different doughs exhibit different end of life indicators. Spotting of the dough does not necessarily indicate that the end is near. Spotting can occur for doughs that are only a few days old. Overfermentation is most often the cause of a dough no longer being usable. When overfermentation occurs, there is generally a destruction and weakening of the gluten matrix (by the action of proteolytic and similar enzymes and by high acid levels) and the release of water from its chemical bond (leading to a wet and clammy dough), with a propensity to produce a skin that can be prone to tearing and ripping when stretching. To the extent that you can form a skin out of the dough, you might also end up with a crust that is lighter in color than desired.

For some examples of "geriatric" doughs, see Reply 20 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11344.msg106401.html#msg106401.

Peter
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 02:48:54 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline TomN

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Re: Cold Rise Expiration Dates?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2012, 02:58:54 PM »
WOW. 23 days is amazing to me. I have some dough in the fridge that is a week old, but I made more dough last night in case it could not be used. Again, 23 days is amazing to me.

Do you think since I use beer in my dough, it might not last as long?

Thanks again for the comments.

TomN
PS
How do you tell when you dough is bad? Smell, color, mold ??????????

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Cold Rise Expiration Dates?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2012, 03:29:07 PM »
TomN,

You can read about Norma's 25-day old dough (a milk kefir dough) at Reply 219 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12173.msg121186.html#msg121186. And, at Reply 3 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21871.msg221617.html#msg221617, Tom (tscarborough) said his oldest dough was 23 days but that he had discarded some 30-day dough balls that still smelled sweet and were usablein his opinion. At Reply 613 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11391.msg217395.html#msg217395, Tom displayed a pizza made with a dough ball that was 29 days old. I believe that is a record on the forum.

It takes a lot of unique measures to get a dough to hold out for weeks. Not being a beer expert, I am not sure what effect beer would have on the fermentation process once you go out several days.

I have never seen mold on any of my doughs, including the geriatric ones. The color of the dough might turn from white to gray, possibly with spotting and occasional bubbles, and there may be the odors of fermentation, but I can't say that I have ever had a bad dough that was indicated by the smell or color or anything else. But, then again, I never held a dough out beyond 23 days to see what would happen to it.

Peter

Offline TomN

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Re: Cold Rise Expiration Dates?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2012, 05:11:19 PM »
Thanks Peter,

I was marketing products to a company that makes pizza dough for other Pizzerias. A very common practice that I have seen with many pizzerias and some restaurants. Let someone else make the dough for you.

The flour that they use is a Pendleton product call Blendako. (Not to be confused with Mondako or Power flour.) They use Blendako for several reasons. The flour cost less than Mondako and Power flour and it proofs faster. When you look at the proofed dough ball, you can actually see Grey flecks on the dough ball. At first, I thought that this meant the dough was expired or going bad, but the owner of the dough making company said that this is the best time to use the dough. The Grey flecks indicate that the dough is at it's very best for baking and pizza making. However, dough made with Blendako not last as long as the Mondako or Power flour. (I am sure that there are those that disagree with this comment)

http://www.pfmills.com/blendako-flour-products-8.php

The next time I am out marketing, i will take a picture of the dough balls in the dough trays and post it.

Therefore, Grey flecks on your dough does not necessarily mean it is a bad thing.

TomN
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 06:38:48 PM by TomN »

Offline TomN

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Re: Cold Rise Expiration Dates?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2012, 03:12:20 AM »
Record for Me

Although 9 days in the fridge might not be long for some, it was a record for me. i was very hesitant about using this dough, but it worked fine and was not spoiled. The only real difference was that the dough seemed extra sticky when i tired to press it out. i had to coated it with a little extra flour to get the job done. The pizza turned out just fine.


Offline Giggliato

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Re: Cold Rise Expiration Dates?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2012, 08:02:32 AM »
Recently I tried some well aged dough (two weeks) sitting in the fridge, it was one the best pizzas I've had. The dough had been bulk fermented on the counter for a few hours before being balled and placed into the fridge, minimal yeast of course.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Cold Rise Expiration Dates?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2012, 10:37:55 AM »
From a food safety stand point there should not be any issues with a yeast leavened dough in the cooler, but as the dough ages, even under refrigeration, it continues to develop the byproducts of fermentation (acids, alcohol, and carbon dioxide) and all of these will slowly take their toll on the dough, specifically the protein content. If you can mix the dough cold, and then get it into a cold refrigerator (34 to 36F) two to three weeks is not uncommon. It all depends upon how well you are able to manage the dough temperature as well as the temperature at which the dough is being held. Remember, even just plain yeast has a maximum refrigerated shelf life of 30-days, though significant deterioration will normally take place inside of two weeks refrigerated storage. Since a good deal of the flavor results from a denaturing of protein during the baking process, as a dough continues to age in the cooler, more of the proteins in the flour are damaged and denatured during baking to provide a "different" or changing flavor, which can be a good thing, or it can be a bad thing depending upon your perspective and your likes.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Cold Rise Expiration Dates?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 03:35:58 PM »
I threw away a  dough ball made with AT on October 26th last night.  It looked and smelled fine, but it will be at least another week before I could use it so I gave up on it. 


 

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