Author Topic: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament  (Read 5947 times)

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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2013, 05:58:01 PM »
That is just castable refractory.


Offline communist

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2013, 06:00:43 PM »
Peter, thanks for the detective work!  Instructions from the manufacturer recommend heating the stone gradually at first.  The initial funky smell must be due to some plasticizer burning off.  I do not have that smell now.   Mark

Offline Qarl

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2013, 06:28:23 PM »
I just picked up some 1" thick corderite kiln shelves from Axner Pottery Supply.  Luckily they are local to me.


http://www.axner.com/cordierite-shelf-18x18x1square.aspx

http://www.axner.com/cordierite-shelf-13x16x1rect.aspx


I'm using them tomorrow (after previously using much thinner corderite and brick combos).  My test firing yesterday showed that they held heat well at 725-750 degrees on my high output gas grill.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2013, 06:42:47 PM »
I just picked up some 1" thick corderite kiln shelves from Axner Pottery Supply.  Luckily they are local to me.


http://www.axner.com/cordierite-shelf-18x18x1square.aspx

http://www.axner.com/cordierite-shelf-13x16x1rect.aspx


I'm using them tomorrow (after previously using much thinner corderite and brick combos).  My test firing yesterday showed that they held heat well at 725-750 degrees on my high output gas grill.


Qarl,
That is great info...thanks.
Both Scotty and Pizzaneer(Brian) have been recommending Axner. Their shipping cost was very fair. I have 2 22in 3/4" thick shelves waiting for me to get after for my LBE build(I'm waaay behind). Anyway, I'll be watching your progress with the 1 incher...good luck man!  :chef:
Bob
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Offline Biz Markie

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2013, 10:13:54 PM »
Nice work, Peter.

This discussion has gotten quite sophisticated but I have a simple question (feel free to direct me to another thread):  what kind of steel are we talking about when discussing 0.5 inch steel plates?  And are these typically acquired from a local metalworker?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2013, 10:24:24 PM »
Nice work, Peter.

This discussion has gotten quite sophisticated but I have a simple question (feel free to direct me to another thread):  what kind of steel are we talking about when discussing 0.5 inch steel plates?  And are these typically acquired from a local metalworker?

Just a plain piece of A36 steel plate. A local metal shop is a good place to start. With any luck, they can cut what you need from a piece of scrap.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 10:32:21 PM »
Just a plain piece of A36 steel plate. A local metal shop is a good place to start. With any luck, they can cut what you need from a piece of scrap.
+1
 Water jet cut is nice but not widely available...make sure to ask them (nicely) if they wouldn't mind running the grinder around all of the edges.  ;)
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Offline scott123

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2013, 10:39:02 PM »
Biz, I'm not endorsing them in any way, but, some members get their steel from bakingsteel.com.  It all boils down to whether or not a 300-400% markup is worth avoiding  some phone calls and a trip to a fabricator to pick the steel up.

If you are considering steel, it's important to bear in mind that it's generally only ideal for puffy/chewy/not too terribly crispy bake times in an oven that can reach at least 530 (either 550 on the dial or a 500 dial that runs a bit hot) and that has a broiler in the main compartment, not in a separate drawer below it. I don't know about the other pizzerias listed in your profile, but if MM is your goal, you definitely don't need steel for that. Golden brown and/or pretty crispy is fairly easily achievable with lower priced and more easily obtained thick cordierite kiln shelves (3/4" or 1" thick from axner).

Offline Biz Markie

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2013, 03:39:51 PM »
Thanks gentlemen!

Yeah, lately I've been doing "nearly-politan" pies with the Fibrament at 550 for about 90 mins, with some top broiler action toward the end of the bake. 
So steel sounds intriguing as a way to get from nearly-politan to the real thing.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2013, 03:50:08 PM »
So steel sounds intriguing as a way to get from nearly-politan to the real thing.

That would be Coca-Cola or Faith No More?
Pizza is not bread.


Offline Biz Markie

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2013, 03:55:45 PM »
Gee, I don't know!  Maybe Bo Bice!  hahahaha

Offline scott123

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2013, 05:01:41 PM »
Thanks gentlemen!

Yeah, lately I've been doing "nearly-politan" pies with the Fibrament at 550 for about 90 mins, with some top broiler action toward the end of the bake. 
So steel sounds intriguing as a way to get from nearly-politan to the real thing.

Biz, I'm being a bit pedantic here, but, when Toby (Infoodel, Foolishpoolish) coined the term 'Nearly-politan' it wasn't in the context of being 'almost Neapolitan,' but, rather, in the context that it was pizza that had every characteristic of a Neapolitan pizza, but baked in a non Neapolitan oven.  He used this term as a means of addressing the concerns of those members who felt that if a pizza isn't made in a WFO, it can't be considered the 'real thing.'  I'm completely oven agnostic, and I'd like to say, since the time that the term was coined, most of the membership has taken on a more oven agnostic perspective as well. For me, Nearlypolitan, going by Toby's definition, is the same as Neapolitan.

All that pendantry aside, if the 'real thing' is your goal, steel might play a means towards that end, but only if you've got a strong enough broiler to give you top Neapolitan leoparding in less than 2 minutes. This is not a large number of ovens.  By my accounts, I guesstimate that 1 in 300 ovens can provide sufficient top heat.

Now, if your broiler does fall short and if you want a sub 2 minute pie without a great deal of leoparding on top, but with a very Neapolitan looking undercrust, then steel might work for that, but you've got to have an oven that will reach at least 600, with 625 probably being the sweet spot for 1/2" steel. If you're hitting 90 seconds with some undercrust color right now with fibrament, you might very well be reaching 625 (or even as high as 700), but I'd take the temperature with an IR thermometer first before you purchase steel.

If it turns out that you're 550 dial oven is actually only reaching 550ish temps, then your best bet for a NP looking undercrust would be 3/4" aluminum.

I'm not sure that an undercrust leoparded only pizza is all that worthy of a goal anyway.  With the lack of heat balance, you might end up with a gum line.  I generally advise people seeking Neapolitan in a home oven to check their broilers, and, if their broilers can't cut it, go NY (or Neo-NY).  If you want to take a photo of your broiler, I can tell you if there's hope it can do NP.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2013, 05:17:01 PM »
Please, not trying to be a wise guy or thread jacker but.....is coal oven pizza a good example of Neo-Ny pizza? Thanks
Bob
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Offline Biz Markie

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2013, 05:19:52 PM »
Thanks for the info, Scott.

Yes I was definitely using the nearlypolitan term loosely.  I'm attempting a Neapolitan style dough and trying to cook as hot and fast as possible, but that's about all that's Neapolitan about my pies :)

I don't have an IR thermometer to get my stone temp, so really not sure how hot it's getting at the "550" temp for 90 mins.

I would love to get a more authentic-like Neapolitan pie if it were a reasonable proposition.  I have a new GE Profile Dual-Fuel range, model P2B930DETWW.  It has a high and low broiler setting.  It seems to me to get pretty hot, but of course there's nothing scientific about that assertion.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2013, 05:20:15 PM »
Please, not trying to be a wise guy or thread jacker but.....is coal oven pizza a good example of Neo-Ny pizza? Thanks
Bob

I've had coal that is very close to NP (Luzzo's) and coal that is nothing like NP (Grimaldi's), so I guess the answer is maybe?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline slybarman

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Re: Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2013, 01:55:41 PM »
Thanks all for the info about Axner. I just ordered a 16x16x3/4" kiln shelf.

Offline slybarman

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Re: Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2013, 03:20:21 PM »
The kiln shelf arrived quickly.  Is there any recommend treatment before use?

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2013, 04:59:53 PM »
The kiln shelf arrived quickly.  Is there any recommend treatment before use?
Yes, get it real hot.  >:D
That Axner is a great company...hope you enjoy your new stone Steve!
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Offline slybarman

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Re: Re: pizza stone, quarry tiles or fibrament
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2013, 05:37:24 PM »
Yes, get it real hot.  >:D
That Axner is a great company...hope you enjoy your new stone Steve!

Thanks Buddy. 3/4" should carry lots o' heat.


 

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