Author Topic: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype  (Read 6333 times)

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Offline scott r

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2013, 10:11:02 PM »
I think chau should get the oven... DONE!   


 >:D


Offline 2stone

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2013, 10:15:27 PM »
Wow,
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 06:51:21 AM by 2stone »

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2013, 05:13:40 PM »
Thanks Scott and I agree with you, some flours are better suited for different purposes.  I wouldn't argue that.  I'm just saying caputo is a versatile flour and can be great at lower temps.   I believe Di Fara uses a 75/25 blend of 00/AT's baked around 7 minutes correct?  Anyways, I'm sure you've seen these before but here are a few examples of 100% caputo at lower temps in my wfo.     

I made a mistake in the video.  This dough was made with a starter and not IDY as I mention in the video.
Scott I think you like your pies darker than that, but there was no browning or toughness here.  Especially in this first video, look closely at the crust and crumb.





Williard, excellent post.  I could not agree with you more.  Pizza like everything else is fluid.  Even the experts are all interpreting what they think is true pizza.  Not sure that anyone is more correct than the other. 

Chau
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 11:26:44 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline scott r

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2013, 08:00:04 PM »
chau, I agree with you, that pie looks like it has some char flavor!     I think im starting to see where/why we disagree. You said in the video that the pizza was cooked with a 750 degree floor.   THat means the ambient temp around the pie had to be 850 to to get an even bake.     

I was trying to steer people away from using straight caputo flour in a home oven (that of course maxes out at 550 if they are lucky).  There was a time on this forum before all you young bucks came in here (haha) where it was almost every day that someone read about caputo flour being the "best"... bought a bag, used it in their home oven... and pulled the piiza when it looked done to them (had a little char).   There were a lot of disappointed pizzamaking.com newbies because they had spent so much on this amazing new pizza flour plus shipping that just didnt provide them with a good pizza.   Im sure you would agree that 100% caputo at 550 and an 8-10 minute bake makes a pretty crappy pizzza.  (by that time its totally dried out and dead).    Of course, you could talk them into pulling the pie really early (before it looked done),  and that would make it better, but in general its a tough way to make a good pizza with authentic pizzeria char flavor!

When discussing caputo being ok for lower temp pizza I was thinking 550 and you were thinking 750 (or more depending on how you measure).     

Honestly,   I think about 50% of "neapolitan" pizzerias using caputo flour I have been to with wood burning ovens have been baking 3 minute + pies with a 750 degree floor, so most if not all of these places would consider your pie to be in the neapolitan "speed".   THere are a few places around boston that do this, and I have run into it in los angeles as well.     

I had a feeling there was something weird going on because I honestly tend to agree 100% with what you say on this forum..... im going to crawl away for now and stop causing trouble on the forum :)   


Offline 2stone

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2013, 09:24:37 PM »
Nice pies.....I don't know, maybe there is something wrong with me....I have gotten over the whole Caputo thing.
It is ingrained in the Neapolitan mystique....or "00" is. I have been picking up all the cheap flours I can get my hands on,
trying to see what I can do with them! Maybe I'm just in a contest with myself......thinking if I did it all right I can pull a masterpiece off of a bag of
"Aldi's All Purpose".......... probably wishful thinking. I did make some incredible sour dough loaves with some "Harvest Bread Flour" (Con Agra)
after I read Scott123's review praising it to the heavens.....though he is right, if you are looking for real performance, there is nothing quite like bromated....
but that is a tough sell in today's Whole foods environment! For me (at the moment) its about finding the magic formula of bulk rise.....rest and folds......and final shaping.
I also have a dedicated cold fermenting fridge where I'm now at 45F instead of 34F   

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2013, 11:04:59 AM »
Scott, taking temps in a wfo is a bit tricky.  Depending on how close you are to the coals, the temp reading can vary quite a bit.   But these pies were right around the 4min bake realm, which tells me the floor is closer to 700F.  Typically at 750f, I'm getting closer to a 3 min bake time.  I think NY style varies between 4-7/8 minutes right?   But I do see your point.  When I get a bit of time here, I will start experimenting and try to make a decent 100% caputo pie in the home oven closer to 8 minutes.  :angel:

I don't know how great the results will be but I will try.  And yes, I already know that I wouldn't get similar char characteristics but then again, there are a lot of NY style pies made with malted flours with blonde rims so that might be a moot point. 

Williard, there is nothing wrong with you.  I do like to use caputo and think it's a great flour but I do agree with you that it may get a lot more attention than it deserves.  It's talked about so much here, that many new members do get the sense that they need to use it for pizza making or that it is the best flour for pizza regardless of the style or oven, which isn't true at all.   I also agree with you about flour versus technique, but that is another conversation and another thread.

In general, I feel that too much emphasis is placed on using specialty flours and not enough emphasis placed on technique, practice, and experimentation.  I think that if one has a good understanding of making dough and baking, that you could make a decent product with even cheap AP flours.  So no....I don't think it's wishful thinking at all.  You would be surprise at what you can do with AP flour. 

Chau

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2013, 11:20:02 AM »
I know we keep veering off topic here so let me make a suggestion for the WF 2 stone oven to get us back on course.   Williard, any chance you can look into sourcing some insulating fireboard?   A small piece (2 inch thickness) placed under the firebox might help preserve more of the heat within the firebox for baking pizza.  You might also try making a low cost insulating layer by sandwiching some of that foam in a spray can between 2 pieces of concrete board.  I bet that would work well.

Also, I can't remember what kind of temps you can get your WF 2 stone upto.  Can you get 900F on the hearth?  If so, any guesses as to what the temps would be above the pizza?  Can you get at least 900F or higher?   A small fan placed in front of the oven might help it draft even better and reach higher temps as well.  Just some thoughts.

I would really like to see someone pull a beautiful textbook classic 90 second NP margherita out of this thing.  I see a lot of potential and versatility for this oven. 

Chau
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 11:33:46 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2013, 09:28:58 PM »
The insulation is a good idea. I haven't used much of it....kind of provide airspaces where if people want to they can stuff it. I think you can get the WF2S as hot as you like and yes you should be able to pull the hearth forward so you get more top heat and less bottom heat. I use lump coal and hardwood kindling and can add flames on demand with a stick once the bed of coals gets good and hot.
There are a lot of little things to learn.....but all in all it's pretty easy when you have the dough making skills down like you do.

Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2013, 05:33:20 PM »
This would be ideal for my back yard (I'm in Chicago)  what do I have to draw!!!!   

Or how much for the system if I get the bricks my self?


Offline deb415611

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2013, 09:42:00 PM »
willard - not sure if this is still active but here is my very quick, very crude drawing.

can't quite tell if the base is quite wide enough to go three blocks but if so i would go with 3 under and then 2 sideways to lift it up a little.  concrete block base prep area to the left - topped with wood(?) and then finished with a piece of marble and tile.  the other side wood box - concrete blocks with brick floor - topped with wood/tile.   hooks on right of 2 stone for peel and turner.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 09:55:39 PM by deb415611 »
Deb

Offline Mick.Chicago

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2013, 10:07:17 PM »
Another crude drawing, also not so dressed up by most peoples standards I'm sure but I got to thinking how the whole unit could be marketed in a moveable format, kind of like Chau's drawing but with more emphasis on the unit being collapsible into a heavy duty wagon as well as a fold down prep table.  I also like the idea of somehow using the weight of the 2stone top to hold a tool rack.


Offline 2stone

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2013, 11:40:37 PM »
Okay, you guys sketch better than me! creative.....yes.... active indeed!
Opening the restaurant on Sunday, burned out is an understatement.
I'm looking for cool axes and a chopping stump...since this is a lump charcoal kindling oven.
I used to get all this slab wood (oak-maple) that was real cheap and wood burn like gasoline.

 

Offline 2stone

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2013, 12:26:56 AM »
Good luck with the opening Williard.  You will do great.  I have the Fiskar splitting axe.  Works great!

http://www2.fiskars.com/Gardening-and-Yard-Care/Products/Axes-and-Striking-Tools

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2013, 01:08:03 AM »
Thanks, which fiskars model do you have?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2013, 02:01:02 AM »
I have the x17 splitting axe.  It feels pretty light in weight for a splitting axe.

Offline deb415611

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2013, 06:25:09 AM »
good luck with the opening Willard, it's looking great
Deb


Offline Serpentelli

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2013, 08:47:24 AM »
Willard,

Although not "rustic" looking, this manually operated, human powered splitter is awesome for getting those small sticks of wood that are so useful in getting the fire nice and hot. Its basically like a 10 ton jack on its side...

Plus, a Viking like you oughta be right at home with the lever arms --- it feels like you are cross-country skiing while splitting your logs!!

I bought mine for $78 on sale at Harbor Freight. Doesnt take up much room and stands on end when not in use. Handles come off for easier storage.


John K
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 12:54:42 PM by Serpentelli »
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline mkevenson

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2013, 11:52:32 AM »
Willard, today is Sunday! Congrats on your opening. Can't wait to hear all about it, and hopefully pics!!!
Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2013, 12:55:42 PM »
Willard, today is Sunday! Congrats on your opening. Can't wait to hear all about it, and hopefully pics!!!
Mark

Yeah, we want Pictures!!!!

BEST of luck Willard! :)

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline bjshaver

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2013, 10:44:13 PM »
Willard,

Wetterlings Splitting Axes are first-rate:

http://www.garrettwade.com/wetterlings-swedish-splitting-axes/p/26D15.01/

However, earlier this year I upgraded my wood-splitting capability big-time...expensive--(yes), overkill--(probably), but this thing is so well made--(right here in the USA)--and effective, that this thing will be friggin generational  :-D:

http://www.supersplit.com/

I am considering one of your Inferno ovens....best of luck with the new venture!

Offline 2stone

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2013, 06:17:22 PM »
Those are pretty cool, the supersplitter looks a lot faster than my hydraulic log splitter....and a bit pricier!
The Wetterlings are beautiful but for the price so is the Fiskar.
We did real good at the opening......cant believe how many people showed up.
I didn't get any time to take any pictures, too busy manning the ovens.

 

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: 2stone Wood Fired Prototype
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2013, 06:21:15 PM »
I'm glad the grande opening went well.  How many ovens did you have running and how many pies did you make?