Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?  (Read 78302 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2006, 08:44:38 PM »
Bud,

I usually make enough dough for one pizza at a time. For example, for a 16-inch Lehmann dough, the total weight is just a bit over 20 ounces. For the dough formulation I posted earlier in this thread for a 12-inch pizza, the dough weighs just under 12 ounces. With those amounts of dough, I have never had a problem at any speed. And my machine is geriatric.

Peter


Offline sebdesn

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2006, 10:12:09 PM »
Peter, yea, for  small amounts, whatever feels right is undoubtedly ok.
 About the smallest thing I do is a Kilo total.....When I have had a load in the mixer and stopped at 1 the thing was in obvious distress.....I was just passing on what the directions said...(who me follow directions??? LOL!)
Bud

Offline RockyMarciano

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2006, 10:22:32 PM »
pizzzzagirl,

Today I made a dough using a different NY style dough recipe. The dough weight was greater than the weight of dough you will make using the recipe posted above, however several of the procedures are quite similar to what I use when making the Lehmann NY style dough. I thought you might find the photos below useful as a guide to your efforts when you next attempt the Lehmann NY style dough.

The first photo shows what the dough will typically look like when flour is gradually added to the mixer bowl to be mixed with the water. As you can see, the dough has the consistency of a thick batter. As more flour is added, the dough starts to thicken and take on a denser, shaggy appearance. The photo below also shows the thin, long-handled plastic spatula I use to divert flour from the sides of the bowl into the path of the dough hook.

Peter
Care to share the recipe? (in proportions for 1 16" pie) and was it any good?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2006, 09:22:58 AM »
Rocky,

The recipe I used was Canadave’s basic recipe for his NY style dough. It appears at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2175.0.html. The formulation I used (a conversion of Canadave's recipe to baker's percents) was set forth at Reply #8 at the above thread.  My results using that formulation were reported at Replies #33 and #34, at page 2 of the same thread, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2175.20.html .The photos shown earlier in this thread were of the same pizza, at earlier stages of the production of the dough and pizza.

As you will see from my report on the pizza, it was great.

Peter

Offline Dartanian

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2006, 09:19:13 PM »
Hi Peter, All --

First of all, let me extend a deep thank you to you and everyone else who gave me fantastic tutelage as I was getting up and running, and addicted. Since my last post, I've made a number of tasty Lehmann NY style pizzas (and yesterday my first Neapolitan with Caputo 00 pizza flour), and while I have some work to do to get to where I want to be as a pizza maker, I have been thrilled and encouraged with the outcome.  The information on this site is outdone only by the spirit with which it is offered by its members to all people out there who come here looking to learn how to make great pizza.  So, thanks again.

I have a question regarding the right amount of sugar for a multi-day rise in the fridge.  I am going to make dough for a Lehmann NY style 16 inch, 63% hydration pizza on Thursday evening, around 9:00,  for use on Sunday evening, around 6:00  How much sugar should I put in the dough to make sure the yeast doesn't run out of food before I am ready to use it?

Steve

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2006, 09:34:57 PM »
Steve,

I'm happy to hear that you are making good process with your pizza making.

As far as sugar is concerned, I think you would be on the cusp and may not need any added sugar if your dough is kept on the cool side. However, as insurance, you could use 1% by weight of flour. For a single 16-inch Lehmann pizza, that would be about 3/4 t.

Peter

Offline Dartanian

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2006, 10:13:42 PM »
Thanks, Peter.

Steve

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2006, 07:04:11 PM »
As I was responding to another post today, I came upon an earlier post I had written on the matter of the need on occasion to interject oneself into the machine dough kneading process. Since that subject is one that comes up quite often, and although it was covered in part earlier in this thread, I thought it might be useful to beginning pizza makers to read nonetheless, especially those with standard home stand mixers (not DLXs or Santos units). The post is at Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1159.0.html. It might also be helpful to read the other posts in the thread (it is a short thread) to put the matter into better perspective.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 07:11:00 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline cooper

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2006, 01:09:07 AM »
I'm new to making pizzas properly.  Before finding this forum and Jeff Varasano's site a couple weeks ago most of the pizzas I attempted were done on a rare spur of the moment "I'm hungry for pizza now" whim, made by throwing some flour in a bowl, adding some yeast, salt, sugar and oil, all unmeasured, then enough water to make a dough.  Knead a little and turn on the oven.  Bake as soon as the oven came up to temp.  I didn't let it rise/ferment long enough.   I didn't have a clue what I was doing.  As you can imagine, the results weren't very good.

I recently used Pete's ingredient list in reply #8 of this thread (Pizzzzagirl's recipe) with KA bread flour.  I weighed out the flour and water and used measuring spoons along with a little estimation for the rest.  I don't have a mixer, so I did this by hand. 

Since my flour was cold from being stored in the freezer, I heated my water in the microwave until fairly warm.  I stirred about half the flour into the water, covered the bowl with plastic wrap and let it rest 15 minutes. 

Then I added the yeast and salt and stirred for a few minutes.  I kept mixing, gradually adding in most of the remaining flour over about 5 more minutes.  When the dough thickened enough to become too difficult to stir with a fork, I worked in the remaining flour in with my hands and put the ball on the counter.  It seemed a bit wet, especially at first, but I used very little bench flour while kneading.  First I worked in the oil.  I didn't record my total knead time.  Maybe 4-5 minutes, then 5 minutes or so rest, then another 2-3 kneading.  Something like that.  I'm guessing.  It wasn't long.  My finished dough temperature was 82 degrees. 

I put the dough ball in a lightly oiled bowl, wiped a little extra oil on the exposed part of the dough, and sealed with plastic wrap.  I put it in the fridge for 48 hours.

On baking day I set the dough bowl out on the counter, along with the sauce I had made, about 2 hours before cooking time to warm up.  An hour before showtime I put the pizza stone on the bottom rack and cranked my older gas oven up a little past 550 on the dial (just short of broil).  I prepared the toppings: pepperoni, mushrooms, bell pepper and onion.  I pre-cooked the sliced mushrooms in the microwave for about 90 seconds, then strained and put them on a paper towel to further draw out moisture.  I grated about 7 ounces of whole milk low moisture cheese (Precious brand -- not horrible, but I'll have to try others).

Using very little flour, I lightly pressed out the dough with my fingers, then stretched it over the back of my knuckles.  I'm not good at this, but I got it mostly round and about 12" in diameter.

With everything lined up and ready for action, I lightly floured the bottom of the dough and lightly floured the peel.  Out of fear from a peel-sticking tragedy years ago I worked extremely quickly after placing the skin on the peel.  I slapped on the sauce, threw on the cheese and toppings and hurriedly got the thing on the stone.  I'll bet it took less than a minute.  I don't know if such speed is required, but I was nervous.

I let the pizza bake about 5 1/2 minutes on the stone, then moved it up to the top rack atop my newly acquired 14" pizza screen for about another 90 seconds.

I removed pizza and screen, setting the screen on top of an oven burner to serve as a cooling rack.  After 3-4 minutes, I put the pizza on a perforated pizza pan lined with paper towels and sliced.  I served the slices on uncoated, cheap paper plates.

This was by far the best pizza I've made.  The crust was tasty -- better than chain store pizza.  I prefer the top slightly more done than this came out, but it wasn't bad for an early try.   More time on the top rack should fix it.  Or, use some tiles placed on the rack above the stone.  Now that I'm on the right track I'll experiment.

I welcome any suggestions for improvement.  I went a bit heavy on the toppings.  I'll eventually develop a better feel for how much of what is needed.  The crust was excellent when fresh out of the oven, but when reheated the next day seemed too chewy/tough.  Is that just the nature of the beast, or can adjustments be made to minimize this?

The crust wasn't quite as springy as I'd like (assuming "spring" means it pops back when you press on it instead of staying squished).  What factors affect this?

Would the bottom turn out similarly if I were to cook the pizza on a screen set directly on the stone?




« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 05:11:27 AM by cooper »


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2006, 10:29:55 AM »
cooper,

Overall, I would say that you did a very nice job. Congratulations. With experience, your results should only get better.

The Lehmann dough formulation calls for a very small amount of yeast, and the dough spends most of its time in the refrigerator. Hence, you won't usually see much rise and "spring" in the dough. If your room temperature is on the low side, as will happen in most parts of the country as fall/winter are upon us, you may not even see much rise in the Lehmann dough on the bench just prior to shaping, dressing, etc. I suggest that you try increasing the amount of yeast a bit and see if you like the final results better. Try, if you can, however, to keep the finished dough temperature in the desired range. You might also let the flour warm up to room temperature once it comes out of your freezer. I think you will find that it doesn't take long for this to happen.

I noticed from your write-up that you used the screen to hold the pizza once you removed it from the stone to a higher oven position. There is nothing per se wrong with that, but you don't really need the screen at that point since the pizza is firm enough to stand on its own when you move it up higher in the oven. My practice is to use the stone for as long as possible and to move the pizza to a higher oven position if I see that the bottom of the pizza is browning too quickly and, at the same time, the top looks like it needs further baking. Remember, also, that you have the broiler element available to you to assist baking the top of the pizza faster. It usually takes a few pizzas to figure out how to balance using the stone, oven rack positions, oven temperature, and the broiler. Against this set of factors, you will also have to balance the amounts and types of cheeses and toppings you use.

You can bake the pizza on the screen directly on the stone. This will slow down the bake of the bottom of the pizza because the screen acts as a barrier between the unbaked pizza and the stone, and has to heat up before the pizza starts to bake in a more meaningful way. Using the screen/stone combo would also be a good idea if you use a lot of sugar in your dough (say, above 2-3% by weight of flour). This is a technique commonly used by some pizza operators to prevent the bottom crust from prematurely browning or burning because of the increased sugar content.

It is common for some of the higher protein flours to yield a crust that is a bit chewy once the crust cools. You could add a bit of all-purpose flour, or even cake or pastry flour, to the KA bread flour to soften the KA bread flour a bit, or you could use more oil, along with a bit of sugar, in the dough. The overall result should be a less chewy, more tender crust and crumb. Along these lines, you might also try other NY style dough recipes beyond the Lehmann version. A good example would be Canadave's NY style dough recipe, which can be found in the NY pizzas style section of the forum at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2175.msg19124.html#msg19124.

Peter

Offline Woodyhoos

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2008, 01:37:41 PM »
Peter,
  A few weeks ago you helped me with a recipe for a NY style pizza using a bread machine.  Just as I finally chose the exact recipe I was going to make..... I ended up purchasing a KA food processor.  So now I need to start the search again.  I found the thread above, and your detailed Reply (#8, I think).  It is written for a stand mixer, however.  Can I just follow this recipe, ignoring any kneading estimates based on times, and pay attention to the look of the dough?  Or is there a better recipe you might recommend specifically for a food processor.

Thanks,
Woodyhoos

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2008, 01:51:42 PM »
Woodyhoos,

If you plan to use a food processor to make a NY style dough, you may want to take a look at the following thread that describes the methods I use when working with a food processor: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2189.msg19289.html#msg19289.

Peter

Offline Woodyhoos

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2008, 09:06:54 AM »
My first real homemade pizza experience last night.... I used the recipe from Reply #8 and it turned out fantastic (for the most part, I'll explain below).  I doubled the recipe so I would have 2 pizzas and didn't have to adjust a thing.  After my last horrendous experience with a sticky mess (different recipe, not from this sight) this was a joy.  Let the dough sit in the fridge overnight.  I made 2 pizzas using a no-cook sauce recipe (also a first time experience), shredded my own Richfood and Poly-O mozzarellas and small sections of deli-sliced provo.  One pizza had nothing else (for the kids) and the second one had pepperoni, bacon, and fresh basil leaves.  I cooked on a pizza screen on top of a pizza stone. 

Everyone raved about the pizza, including a neighbor who stopped by and had 2 slices (after already eating dinner).  The one big problem, unfortunately, was that I couldn't get my oven hot enough.  I decided to use my Primo Grill/smoker (similar to the Big Green Egg if you are familiar with that).  (For those familiar with this grill, I used thick firebricks as a heat shield, and placed a pizza stone on top of them).  It is a ceramic "oven" that should have no problem getting to 500-600 deg.  But I found out too late that in my rushed prep, I didn't have enough charcoal in it, so over the course of cooking the 2 pizzas, they were being cooked closer to 400.  I think this reduced some of the browning of hte crust, and I am guessing didnt give it the quick rise it might otherwise have had.  But I compensated by cooking longer and the crush still have some crispiness to it.  I look forward to duplicating everything, but with a hotter oven. 

So thanks to the site, and in particular to Peter, for the helpful information.  I look forward to further experimentation, but I think I want to get this style down (and my oven figured out) before I move on.

Woodyhoos

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2008, 09:19:50 AM »
Woodyhoos,

Just keep plugging away at it and you will master the process in no time. Out of curiosity, did you use a food processor to make the dough? Also, did you place the pizza screen with the pizza on it directly on the stone or did you yank the screen out from under the pizza at some point?

BTW, you don't have to limit yourself to the specific recipe in Reply 8. As you will note, that recipe was mainly for winter, or cool weather, use. This time of year, I use 0.25% IDY.

Peter

Offline Woodyhoos

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2008, 10:01:20 AM »
I did use a Food Processor and did it by feel (no times).  The dough balled up on top of the blade after everything became incorporated.  I then pushed it down into the kneading area once or twice to make sure it was actually being needed.  (But remember, I have no idea what I am doing).  The dough came out just as in one of your posts - it was slightly tacky, but not too much, and the tackiness went away as soon as I hand kneaded (which I did for about 45 seconds).

I kept the screen in place the entire time, although I hope to eventually pull it out.  But this time it wasn't cooking very quickly so I was afraid of it folding up.  Also, my pizza stone finally cracked all of the way through, and I didn't trust it to stay together.  Finally, my pizza stone also is extremely dirty.  I made the mistake of using it as a heat shield when smoking some spare ribs one time and it was coated with the drippings.  I didn't want to worry about transferring any flavors to the pizza.  But I do plan to get either a new pizza stone or some unglazed quarry tiles soon and hope to improve to the point of being about to either only  use the screen initially, or mastering a peel and not using one at all.  Although I did find one advantage of the screen was that its grid seemed to be helpful in holding the pizza dough in its fully stretched out shape (by adding some friction), whereas on the cutting board it had a tendency to shrink up a bit more.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2008, 03:58:15 PM »
I recently posted a reply at another thread in which I outlined several steps that I frequently use when making doughs by hand, whether a NY style dough or another type of dough of similar hydration. Since this thread has evolved into a thread mainly to help newbies, many of whom do not have dough mixing equipment, I thought that it might be useful to repeat the content of the abovementioned reply for the benefit of newbies who would like to knead their doughs by hand. Here are the hand kneading tips for a typical dough formulation including flour, water, yeast (IDY), salt, oil, and sugar:

1. Although not obligatory, my preference if a sieve or hand crank sifter is available, is to sift the formula flour into a first bowl and add and stir in the IDY. (See Note 2 below if using ADY or fresh yeast instead of IDY.) The IDY can also be sifted along with the flour if the openings of the sieve or sifter are large enough. Sifting the flour will improve the hydration of the flour by incorporating more water into the dough. Unlike ADY, it is not necessary to rehydrate the IDY in warm water although it perhaps should be rehydrated in a small amount (a couple of ounces) of warm water if the knead time is to be brief (e.g., below about five minutes), in which case the rehydrated IDY can be added to the rest of the formula water or to the rest of the ingredients in the mixing bowl. The abovementioned five-minute number is one that Tom Lehmann often mentions as the cutoff for rehydrating the IDY when hand kneading. See, for example, Reply 1 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=21801.msg220619;topicseen#msg220619.

2. Put all of the formula water into a second bowl, add the salt, and stir until dissolved, about 20 seconds. It is not necessary to warm up all of the formula water if prehydrating the IDY is deemed necessary or desirable (e.g., to around 105 degrees F), only the part used to prehydrate the IDY. Using all warm water will only increase the finished dough temperature and accelerate the fermentation of the dough and shorten its window of usability. Any water not used to rehydrate the yeast as discussed above can be cool or even cold right out of the refrigerator. Ideally, for a home refrigerator application, the finished dough temperature should be between 75-80 degrees F. Using cool/cold water at around 75 degrees F should allow one to achieve a finished dough temperature in that range, although some adjustment may be needed from time to time based on experience. A thermometer (e.g., an analog or digital instant read thermometer) will be required to measure the finished dough temperature. If too high or too low by more than a few degrees, the water temperature can be adjusted for future dough batches as noted above.

3. Add the oil to the bowl with the water/salt mixture. Alternatively, the oil can be added after step 4 below and incorporated into the dough. (Some people feel that the oil interferes with the hydration of the flour if added to the water. On the other hand, adding the oil to the water disperses it more uniformly throughout the dough as it is kneaded into the dough.)

4. Gradually add the flour/yeast mixture to the water/salt mixture a few tablespoons at a time and, using a sturdy spoon, combine the ingredients until it is no longer easy to stir more of the flour/yeast mixture into the dough mass. If desired, a wire whisk can be used at the beginning to improve the hydration of the flour even more, and switch to the spoon when the whisk bogs down. The whisk can take any of the forms shown in the photos below (although a Danish whisk, not shown, can also be used). If the oil was not added in step 3 above, add to the oil to the dough in the mixing bowl and knead into the dough.

5. Using a spatula or a flexible plastic bench knife, scrape the rough dough mass out of the mixing bowl onto a work surface that has been lightly dusted with a bit of flour. The bench knife I use is like the one shown at http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/bakers-bench-knife but any bench knife can be used, even the plastic ones (as shown, for example, at http://www.bakedeco.com/dept.asp?id=194).

6. Sprinkle the remaining flour/yeast mixture a little bit at a time onto the dough mass and knead into the dough mass after each addition. To facilitate this process, use wet hands or hands dusted with a bit of the flour. It is also possible to use a bench knife, or even two of them for a large dough batch, to turn and knead the dough mass as the remaining flour is added to the dough. For some guidance on how to use a bench knife to help knead the dough, see this video: http://www.monkeysee.com/play/997-pizza-how-to-make-dough-by-hand-part-two If the dough is hard to knead for any reason, let the dough rest from time to time during the kneading process. This will allow the flour to better hydrate and will allow the gluten structure to relax and become less elastic, making it easier to knead the dough. 

7. Continue kneading until the dough is smooth and malleable yet a bit tacky. Resist the temptation to add more flour. As the hand kneading continues, the wetness of the dough should gradually diminish and disappear. If the dough really sticks to the fingers and to the work surface (the dough will usually pull away in strands as it is pulled away from the work surface), add additional flour, a quarter teaspoon or half teaspoon at a time, and knead into the dough with each such addition. If the dough is too dry, add more water, about a half teaspoon at a time, and knead to incorporate. If more flour and/or water are used in this manner, note the total amounts of each added. This might help modify the dough formulation for future dough batches, especially if a scale is used to weigh the flour and water.

8. Another dough kneading method that can also be used as part of a hand kneading regimen is the one shown in Images 4a-4c at http://www.woodstone-corp.com/cooking_naples_style_dough.htm.. For other knead methods, including stretch and fold, see http://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/instructionals/59-written-recipes/175-the-stretch-and-fold-method.html (including the video referenced in the article) and http://www.gourmet.com/magazine/video/2008/03/bertinet_sweetdough.html.

Note 1: It is also possible to add the salt to the flour rather than to the water in the mixing bowl. The same also applies to sugar (if called for in the dough formulation). However, adding both the salt and sugar to the water helps them dissolve faster and better. If honey is used in lieu of sugar, it can be added to the water in the mixing bowl or to the dough in the bowl as it is being mixed and kneaded. The honey can be warmed up slightly to make it flow better but that step is optional.

Note 2: If ADY is used instead of IDY, it should be rehydrated in a small amount of the formula water at about 105 degrees F for about 10-15 minutes. It can then be added to the rest of the formula water or to the rest of the ingredients in the mixing bowl. If fresh (cake) yeast is used, it can either be rehydrated in tepid water (a portion of the formula water) at around 80-90 degrees F, or simply be crumbled into the mixing bowl.

Note 3: If weights of ingredients are used and one of the dough calculating tools is used (e.g., at http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html or http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html), it is recommended that a bowl residue compensation of 1.5-2% be used in the tool to compensate for minor dough losses during preparation of the dough.

If one has an electric hand mixer, another kneading regimen that combines use of the electric hand mixer and hand kneading is described at Reply 30 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.msg36489.html#msg36489. It will be noted that many of the steps suggested above are also incorporated in the procedures described in that post.

Peter

EDIT (9/21/14): Edited from time to time to incorporate newer information. For the Wayback Machine version of the nonworking Woodstone link, see http://web.archive.org/web/20140330190734/http://woodstone-corp.com/cooking_naples_style_dough.htm

Offline tsmys

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2009, 07:36:14 PM »
Hi Guys,

Just a couple of quick questions about storage containers.  Is it OK to use a square container?  Also, when using a "Tupperware" type container, should the lid be sealed or left slightly ajar?  Thanks!


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2009, 09:06:23 PM »
tsmys,

I don't recommend a square or rectangular container for dough that is to be used to make round pizzas because it makes it more difficult to reshape a square or rectangular dough ball into a round one without mangling it or making it overly elastic because of the reshaping. If you plan to make dough for a square or rectangular pizza, such as a Sicilian style pizza, you could use a square or rectangular storage container.

If a dough ball is to be held overnight, you should be able to use a tight fitting lid. However, if there is a lot of yeast in the dough or the dough is very warm going into the storage container where there is a risk of the dough expanding too quickly and producing a lot of gases, you might either use a sheet of plastic wrap to cover the storage container or else use a lid with a small hole in the center. That will allow the gases of fermentation to escape while retaining the moisture of condensation. The Lehmann NY style doughs are low-yeast doughs, so the risk of the dough "blowing" and popping the lid is almost nonexistent. I personally don't leave the lid ajar because I don't want the surface of the dough to dry out.

Peter

Offline tsmys

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2009, 11:21:12 AM »
Peter,

Thanks for the quick reply.  I'm getting ready to try my first Lehmann's dough and want to reduce the variables as much as possible so I can go back and figure out what I screwed up without too much trouble. ;D  As you can tell I'm brimming with confidence!  I've been using zip-lock bags with a small section of the seal left unsealed but I can see my zip-lock budget getting way out of hand not to mention the landfill issues.  I'm assuming from your reply that the lids on metal cans don't seal enough to cause any expansion issues.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2009, 12:26:30 PM »
I'm assuming from your reply that the lids on metal cans don't seal enough to cause any expansion issues.

tsmys,

I have used cookie tins with fairly tight fitting lids without any problem. Usually, however, I will open the tins to check out the dough to see how it is doing. The advantage of using glass containers and some plastic containers is that you can see what is happening to the dough without having to remove the lids.

Peter

Offline tsmys

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2009, 03:46:15 PM »
Thanks Peter,

Caught Alton Brown's pizza show last night.  It really helped fill in some blanks for me.  Also watched a u-tube video you had recommended in Foodblogger's thread "Malnati Deep Dish with Semolina".  That helped a bunch also.  Would recommend both for all newbies.

Offline dbsoccer

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2009, 01:37:26 AM »
Hi Peter,

Per your suggestion I read (skimmed actually) this thread. It was very helpful. My one question is with the technique you outline for Pizzzagirl way back at the start. I don't recall the 'resting' period autoclyse (spelling is probably wrong). Is it there and I missed it or was it not there.

I need to more carefully read this and I also need to check out the crust stretching Youtube clip.

Brent

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2009, 10:20:27 AM »
Brent,

You are correct. The autolyse or similar rest period is not there. The Lehmann NY style dough recipe is a commercial recipe and does not call for using an autolyse or similar rest period. In fact, you will find very few pizza operators who use the classic Calvel (Prof. Raymond Calvel) autolyse or even a pseudo-autolyse or quasi-autolyse rest period. A few artisan pizza operators do use it. Also, many of our members use the autolyse and similar practices, both for the Lehmann NY style and other pizza styles. I like autolyse for certain types of doughs but not for others. I have tried autolyse for the Lehmann NY style but don't regularly use it.  In your reading, you may note that a lot of people combine all of the typical ingredients of a dough, such as flour, water, yeast and salt, and let that dough rest for a period of time. They may refer to the rest period as an autolyse rest period. However, that is not correct. At that point, the dough is fermenting. A classic autolyse entails combining only flour and water and letting that mixture rest before adding other ingredients. A good place to learn more about autolyse is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2632.msg22758.html#msg22758, and particularly Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2632.msg22856.html#msg22856.

Peter

Offline occifer19

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #73 on: June 30, 2009, 07:53:15 PM »
Boys and girls........I just finished making my pies with Toms recipe for the home cook. I've been looking for this crust for 20 years..............I took some time off...................and it was just what I was looking for.........crunchy, with body and good flavor. I mixed the dough for about 15 min. let it raise twice, baked @ 520 degs middle of oven, on a stone, 11 minutes, kinda. WOW, what a pizza.

All I have to do now is do it again, and I can die a happy man...............

This web site is awsome..........thanks to everyone...........Mike Hoffman :chef:

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's dough tips for the amatuer pizza maker at home ?
« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2009, 08:04:07 PM »
Mike,

I am glad that Tom's dough recipe worked out so well for you.

It sounds like you made some changes to the dough management and did not refrigerate the dough. Can you elaborate a bit further how you made and managed the dough, including any changes to the recipe itself and the times used?

Peter