Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?

[PizzaEater101]

Often times my dough taste like sour dough, some more than others.  This has always been a mystery to me.


Thank You,


James

[Chicago Bob]

OK...here we go....what is your leavening agent James?

[PizzaEater101]

OK...here we go....what is your leavening agent James?

Sorry what is a leavening agent? Do you mean yeast?

I used this formula-

Flour (100%):
Water (64%):
IDY (0.56437%):
Salt (1.984%):
Sugar (.25%):

[Chicago Bob]

Yes, yeast...in pizza making that is the commonly employed substance. Just wanted a clarification of what particular form of yeast you are working with.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leavening_agent

Your use of ady should provide you with very consistent/predictable results James. So I think you really only need to take a close look at your work flow in creating your dough. Document and create a "check list", if you will, of your dough making procedure. Something, somewhere is inconsistent...causing the differentiation you are experiencing. I would suspect you are doing your room temp. rises differently from batch to batch. Hopefully, one of the pros will join in here shortly....

[mkevenson]

James, some folks go to great lengths to make a sour dough crust. You happen on it with no effort. Be happy.
Bob has the right idea. If consistency is amiss then the process must be changing OR environmental factors or ingredients are different cook to cook.
Do you keep notes of you cooks?
I know that I am new here but from previous cooking experiences where I wanted consistency I had to document everything. The dough calculator here is my friend and I print every pizza I make and add the process so next time I hopefully can figure out what I did wrong, or right.

Mark

[PizzaEater101]

Yes, yeast...in pizza making that is the commonly employed substance. Just wanted a clarification of what particular form of yeast you are working with.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leavening_agent

Your use of ady should provide you with very consistent/predictable results James. So I think you really only need to take a close look at your work flow in creating your dough. Document and create a "check list", if you will, of your dough making procedure. Something, somewhere is inconsistent...causing the differentiation you are experiencing. I would suspect you are doing your room temp. rises differently from batch to batch. Hopefully, one of the pros will join in here shortly....

Thanks for the input Bob.

I use IDY not ADY.

My process is this.

1) Weigh out water that is 60 to 65 F degrees.
2) Add in sugar and mix up with water.
3) Add in salt in water/sugar and mix up.
4) Add in IDY and mix it up with the water/sugar/salt mix.
5) Add in high protein flour (Power Flour)
6) Mix for 2 minutes with paddle.
7) Let rest for 5 minutes
Knead with hook in for 7 minutes

Take out weigh in portions and cold ferment for about 1 to 2 days then use.

What am I doing to cause this?


Thanks

[PizzaEater101]

James, some folks go to great lengths to make a sour dough crust. You happen on it with no effort. Be happy.
Bob has the right idea. If consistency is amiss then the process must be changing OR environmental factors or ingredients are different cook to cook.
Do you keep notes of you cooks?
I know that I am new here but from previous cooking experiences where I wanted consistency I had to document everything. The dough calculator here is my friend and I print every pizza I make and add the process so next time I hopefully can figure out what I did wrong, or right.

Mark

Mark, thanks for the input. Yes I document what I do. I use the dough calculator and print out and take notes of what I like or don't like about it. So far I think my above formulation that I posted in reply to Bob's first message is my favorite dough. I do like the 64% water hydration.  I got that from the Luigi thread I started last year and Peter and Mike (Essen1) came up with the formula. I only changed it by making it 64% not 62% hydration and increased the sugar a little. But I like it.

That's funny that people try to make sour dough crust and really have a method to it yet I do so effortlessly.

It's not just this crust but other ones too that I have done with different formulas.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind it but after awhile I want a regular non-sour dough crust. I like sour dough but just sometimes I want plain I guess.

I am finally getting good at shaping and baking it so I'd like to get down the crust in a way it's not always sour dough.


Thanks

[Pete-zza]

James,

I don't see anything in your dough formulation or your dough preparation or management to explain the sourdough flavor you have been getting? Have you been getting the same type of sourdough flavor with other flours?

Peter

[Chicago Bob]

Thanks for the input Bob.

I use IDY not ADY.

My process is this.

1) Weigh out water that is 60 to 65 F degrees.
2) Add in sugar and mix up with water.
3) Add in salt in water/sugar and mix up.
4) Add in high protein flour (Power Flour)
5) Mix for 2 minutes with paddle.
6) Let rest for 5 minutes
7) Knead with hook in for 7 minutes

Take out weigh in portions and cold ferment for about 1 to 2 days then use.

What am I doing to cause this?


Thanks

James,
You say you use idy...not ady. But in your process steps I don't see any step where you add any yeast at all....maybe you have stumbled upon some magic flour?   

[PizzaEater101]

LOL, oops, I just noticed I left out IDY before I read your post and then read it and noticed I left it out. But no, I'll fix that step.

Here you go Chicago Bob -

My process is this.

1) Weigh out water that is 60 to 65 F degrees.
2) Add in sugar and mix up with water.
3) Add in salt in water/sugar and mix up.
4) Add in IDY and mix it up with the water/sugar/salt mix.
5) Add in high protein flour (Power Flour)
6) Mix for 2 minutes with paddle.
7) Let rest for 5 minutes
Knead with hook in for 7 minutes

Now why is it tasting sour doughish? I don't mind but I don't want always to eat sour dough pizza.

Here is the pizza. You can't tell why it's sour doughish but you can at least see the finished product -

[PizzaEater101]

James,

I don't see anything in your dough formulation or your dough preparation or management to explain the sourdough flavor you have been getting? Have you been getting the same type of sourdough flavor with other flours?

Peter

Peter that's a great question, I did not entertain the thought of different flour might give a different result.

I am using Power Flour and have been using it since summer. Have a 25 LB bag and hadn't made pizza in a couple of months then started again.

I can't recall if other brands flour have given me that taste. I should buy some other brand and find out.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I get this with different hydration percentages but I have to point out that I love the result with 64% hydration. The feel of the dough when shaped and I think the baked product has good texture and bakes well. 

[Chicago Bob]

James,
I was just teasing about the yeast omission, sorry...didn't mean for you to have to restate your recipe. Like Peter observed, you have a solid formula and your sourdough taste is pretty unusual. Try a different flour as Peter suggests. I am inclined to think that perhaps you have a keen sense of taste for what you're experiencing as compared to other folks maybe...?

[shuboyje]

Is it a definite acidic sourdough taste, or are you possibly associated a lack of yeast flavor with sourdough?  I could see a person who is used to a dough with a whole packet of yeast in it noticing the lack of yeast flavor in a low yeast dough.  Just going out on a limb here because like everyone else, I see nothing that should make this dough taste like sourdough.

[PizzaEater101]

James,
I was just teasing about the yeast omission, sorry...didn't mean for you to have to restate your recipe. Like Peter observed, you have a solid formula and your sourdough taste is pretty unusual. Try a different flour as Peter suggests. I am inclined to think that perhaps you have a keen sense of taste for what you're experiencing as compared to other folks maybe...?

You might be right about keen sense of taste. I am what is known as a Supertaster.  Sounds funny enough but it is true there are such things as Supertasters. Because we taste things others who have normal tasting abilities don't taste it often makes us look like picky eaters. I might be tasting things others don't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster

Could be the flour but plenty have been using Power Flour here and no one seems to complain about the taste of it. I'm not complaining just odd to have sour dough crust when you are not trying to make it that way.

Even though Supertasters are individuals of course and have their own likes and dislikes on an individual basis some typical dislikes in foods that have been found among many ST are these and all these. The only one on the list I like is soda but only certain ones and I always need ice in soda to kind of tame the carbonation down a bit.  But beer, you see beer on the list, I hate beer. It taste vile to me. Most normal people don't feel that way.

certain alcoholic beverages
Brassica oleracea cultivars
Brussels sprouts
cabbage
kale
coffee
grapefruit juice
green tea
soy products
carbonation in drinks such as in soda, beer, etc.


Thanks

[PizzaEater101]

Is it a definite acidic sourdough taste, or are you possibly associated a lack of yeast flavor with sourdough?  I could see a person who is used to a dough with a whole packet of yeast in it noticing the lack of yeast flavor in a low yeast dough.  Just going out on a limb here because like everyone else, I see nothing that should make this dough taste like sourdough.

Great points made. But no it's an acidic sourdough taste.

I'll try a different flour brand when I run out of Power Flour but it's odd others with Power Flour don't mention it's a sour dough taste.

I am making new dough now. Same formula and same process. I will see if this batch taste sour dough like. It should but who knows until I use it. I'll let you guys know in a day or two.


Thanks

[Chicago Bob]

James,
We have some members here that are super tasters...."Meatballs" is one and I think maybe moderator Bill is one also.

[TXCraig1]

Do other people who eat it think it tastes sour?

Are you sure the sour notes are not coming from the sauce or cheese? Some cheeses can make a pizza taste like it is baked on sourdough and some tomatoes are overly acidic.

Have you tried baking any with no toppings and see how it tastes?

[PizzaEater101]

Do other people who eat it think it tastes sour?

Are you sure the sour notes are not coming from the sauce or cheese? Some cheeses can make a pizza taste like it is baked on sourdough and some tomatoes are overly acidic.

Have you tried baking any with no toppings and see how it tastes?

It's definitely the dough not the sauce or toppings. The part of the crust that has no sauce or toppings I eat separately, you know the rim and it taste like sour dough.  I have my wife some of the pizza but I never asked if she thought it tasted sour dough like or not, all she said was she liked it.

Put it this way when I have the dough ball without rolling it and putting stuff on it or dressing it as it is called I can even tell it smells like sour dough bread.

[widespreadpizza]

PE101,  been reading this thread from the beginning,  starting to wonder if maybe you are not a super taster?  Try making a dough with a sourdough starter and see if it tastes like sourdough.  Also,  as you do not like beer,  maybe you are objecting to the beery taste of a well fermented yeasted bread dough.  Certainty there are similarities.  Not trying to give you a hard time,  but from what you have described,  it seems to me your taste may be a bit off. -Marc

[TXCraig1]

As others have noted, there is nothing in your formula or workflow that should give you a sour taste no matter what you do - effortlessly or otherwise. I have to agree with Marc that you are likely confusing a yeasty, fermented taste for a sour taste.