Author Topic: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?  (Read 8210 times)

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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2012, 12:31:50 AM »
It might get a tiny "sour" flavor from the ethanol - maybe, but it's never going to be anything like the sour of a sourdough. The sour comes from lactic acid bacteria which you just don't have in meaningful amounts in a baker's yeast leavened dough. Maybe if your flour was contaminated with some sort of bacteria, maybe.

Not sure if it's contaminated or I'm just tasting things that most normal tasters would not. I say this because I asked my wife if the pizza I gave her the other day if the crust tasted like sour dough and she said no.

I guess I'm just picking up something she is not due to my super taster ways. Also super tasters have a heightened sense of both taste and smell.


Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2012, 12:36:48 AM »
PE101,  been reading this thread from the beginning,  starting to wonder if maybe you are not a super taster?  Try making a dough with a sourdough starter and see if it tastes like sourdough.  Also,  as you do not like beer,  maybe you are objecting to the beery taste of a well fermented yeasted bread dough.  Certainty there are similarities.  Not trying to give you a hard time,  but from what you have described,  it seems to me your taste may be a bit off. -Marc

No offense taken Marc, I am positive my taste is off. I taste things in food that others who have normal taste don't taste which causes me to dislike many foods that most people like.

I should make it with a sourdough starter. I don't even know how to do that but I'm sure there are plenty of threads here about that so I should research some and learn how and make some and see how the result taste.

I made some more dough yesterday and plan on making a pizza tomorrow and I did it the same way as I always do and the same formula as the last one so I'll see if it taste that way too.

I think you are onto something about the beer. It might be the dough is well fermented. I wonder if I should make a dough with .2% instead of .5% yeast. I usually us .4% but recently started .5 because I like the Luigi formula that either Essen1 or Pete came up with, I forget which and the one I picked that they came up with is .5 something %.  I am not sure how dropping to .2% would affect the taste and the quality of the dough though.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2012, 12:37:59 AM »
As others have noted, there is nothing in your formula or workflow that should give you a sour taste no matter what you do - effortlessly or otherwise. I have to agree with Marc that you are likely confusing a yeasty, fermented taste for a sour taste.

Most likely. I'm tasting more yeasty flavor than most normal tasters would so it gives a sour dough vibe to me.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2012, 09:12:05 AM »
James,

As I noted at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21181.msg214864/topicseen.html#msg214864, it takes a fair amount of yeast to be discernible in the finished crust. Also, since ADY contains more dead cells than IDY, some people may be able to taste the difference between those two forms of yeast. In your case, I suppose it is possible that your unique taste sensitivity allows you to taste the IDY even at lower relative levels and be perceived as being sourdough in nature even if isn't a true sourdough flavor.

Peter

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2012, 11:45:34 AM »
James,

As I noted at Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21181.msg214864/topicseen.html#msg214864, it takes a fair amount of yeast to be discernible in the finished crust. Also, since ADY contains more dead cells than IDY, some people may be able to taste the difference between those two forms of yeast. In your case, I suppose it is possible that your unique taste sensitivity allows you to taste the IDY even at lower relative levels and be perceived as being sourdough in nature even if isn't a true sourdough flavor.

Peter

Thanks for the info and the link to Reply 17.  Yes, could be it's because of my heightened sense of taste that I taste the yeast even though the amounts of IDY is low enough where I most should not be tasting it. So either my sense of taste or maybe something else.

I will try a sour dough starter and see how that goes too.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2012, 11:54:27 AM »
Check this out. This member says his dough has a sour flavor to it.


http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21481.0.html
« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 11:58:04 AM by PizzaEater101 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2012, 11:54:48 AM »
How long have you been making pizzas...did this just now start happening? What about other peoples pizza...do you ever eat out or have you ever had a store bought frozen pizza...same peculiar taste?
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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2012, 12:01:07 PM »
How long have you been making pizzas...did this just now start happening? What about other peoples pizza...do you ever eat out or have you ever had a store bought frozen pizza...same peculiar taste?

Those are good questions.

I have been making pizza for about 7 years now but have not been making on a regular basis for about 5 years.

I do eat out and there are some fine pizza places I go to.  When I first started this thread I asked about this because I didn't think it was because of my tasting abilities. I am a supertaster that's for sure but I thought it had nothing to do with that and thought it was something in the way I was doing things because in the past my own pizzas didn't give me the sour flavor and when I go to pizza joints I didn't get that flavor too. I thought it must be something I am doing wrong but then I didn't do anything different than anyone who does make pizza does so why does it taste sour so I thought maybe it's because I am a supertaster but truthfully I don't think it is the supertaster thing but I can't figure out what.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2012, 12:03:51 PM »
Oh wait I figured it out.

Can the type of sugar cause the dough to taste sour? Maybe it reacts differently with the yeast?  See I first noticed this about 5 pizzas ago.

I ran out of sugar, regular C&H granulated sugar but I did have some C&H granulated sugar that is super fine so I used that since I ran out of regular granulated sugar. I was planning on going out and buying some regular granulated sugar but didn't get around to it yet so have been using super fine granulated sugar. Can that cause a strange reaction between the yeast and the super fine sugar to cause it to ferment differently and give a sour dough like taste?

I made some dough the other day so this afternoon I'll make a pizza and let you know if it gives that sour dough taste. Then I'll make some dough in a day or two and make a pizza with regular C&H granulated sugar and let you know if it taste sour dough like.  That might be it because it's the only thing that changed recently and that's when it started tasting sour dough like.

Then again my wife does not taste the sour dough like flavor to it. Maybe the super fine sugar does do something to it to the point that I, a supertaster can taste the sour dough like flavor but she can not but if I used regular granulated sugar then the flavor of sour dough will go away to my heightened sense of taste and of course she'd never be the wiser either way.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 12:09:35 PM by PizzaEater101 »


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2012, 12:06:56 PM »
Check this out. This member says his dough has a sour flavor to it.


http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21481.0.html
I think he was misunderstood in that thread.And I believe he was meaning "smell" when he would say "flavor".
Also, what the other posters didn't seem to understand was that he already used a purchased dough(which didn't smell) and he was now looking to start using his own dough but needed help getting his dough to not smell. His sentence structure was a 'lil confusing...
Bob
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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2012, 12:10:22 PM »
I think he was misunderstood in that thread.And I believe he was meaning "smell" when he would say "flavor".
Also, what the other posters didn't seem to understand was that he already used a purchased dough(which didn't smell) and he was now looking to start using his own dough but needed help getting his dough to not smell. His sentence structure was a 'lil confusing...
Bob

I see, yes smell and taste are related in our senses but they are two different things.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2012, 12:14:25 PM »
If any of you want to use my dough formulation that I posted and use C&H super fine sugar then let us see if you get a sour dough like flavor. The IDY I use is saf-instant brand. I use Power Flour high gluten. If you don't have that or saf that's okay but still give super fine sugar a go. You can get it at those dollar type of stores so it won't cost much and will last a long time.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2012, 12:13:13 PM »
Made another pizza yesterday and had the sour flavor to it but less. I used Crystal Geyser Water since I was trying to mimic the Pizzeria Luigi pizza since Luigi uses Crystal Geyser.  The sour was there but not as much so I wonder if the mineral content  of the water which is different than my municipal tap water I have been using for years might react differently to the yeast so it gives less of a sour taste although there. Also like I say I use super fine granulated sugar so I wonder if that has something to do with it because before that I never had that issue of sourness.

I will have to do some controlled experiments to see how the results are and I'll post them. I can't make pizza all the time but you know I'll have to give it a try.

Thanks

Offline norma427

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2012, 12:33:14 PM »
James,

I have played around with sour dough pizzas and also the Luigiís pizza.  Steve and I never tasted any sourdough taste when I made the Luigiís pizzas and I used Crystal Geyser water and other waters.

I really think your taste buds are a little different (which really isnĎt a bad thing, but might make you taste differently than others).  I really donít think the type of sugar you use has anything to do with the sourdough taste either.

I have tried NY water, my well tap water, markets well water and other bottled waters in my different pizzas and really never tasted a sourdough taste without really using a starter.

What type of controlled experiments do you want to try? 

Norma

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2012, 01:36:26 PM »
James,

I have played around with sour dough pizzas and also the Luigiís pizza.  Steve and I never tasted any sourdough taste when I made the Luigiís pizzas and I used Crystal Geyser water and other waters.

I really think your taste buds are a little different (which really isnĎt a bad thing, but might make you taste differently than others).  I really donít think the type of sugar you use has anything to do with the sourdough taste either.

I have tried NY water, my well tap water, markets well water and other bottled waters in my different pizzas and really never tasted a sourdough taste without really using a starter.

What type of controlled experiments do you want to try? 

Norma

Thanks for your input Norma.  Just in terms of controlled experiment I mean take notes of different waters and different sugar and flour types as well as fermentation times and bake times to see what different results I might have. This could take months because I won't be making pizza every week.  Maybe more weeks than others but not all weeks.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2012, 04:25:13 PM »
Thanks for your input Norma.  Just in terms of controlled experiment I mean take notes of different waters and different sugar and flour types as well as fermentation times and bake times to see what different results I might have. This could take months because I won't be making pizza every week.  Maybe more weeks than others but not all weeks.

I'm not sure that you will get much from controlled experiments if you can't ascertain for sure that what you are tasting is in fact "sour."

A more telling controlled experiment might be to make your normal dough and cut it side-by-side with a similar dough made from a bona fide sourdough culture.

CL
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2012, 04:34:05 PM »
Those are good questions.

I have been making pizza for about 7 years now but have not been making on a regular basis for about 5 years.

I do eat out and there are some fine pizza places I go to.  When I first started this thread I asked about this because I didn't think it was because of my tasting abilities. I am a supertaster that's for sure but I thought it had nothing to do with that and thought it was something in the way I was doing things because in the past my own pizzas didn't give me the sour flavor and when I go to pizza joints I didn't get that flavor too. I thought it must be something I am doing wrong but then I didn't do anything different than anyone who does make pizza does so why does it taste sour so I thought maybe it's because I am a supertaster but truthfully I don't think it is the supertaster thing but I can't figure out what.
Throw everything out and make a new batch of dough.  :chef:
And see if it tastes super....
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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2012, 11:10:49 PM »
I'm not sure that you will get much from controlled experiments if you can't ascertain for sure that what you are tasting is in fact "sour."

A more telling controlled experiment might be to make your normal dough and cut it side-by-side with a similar dough made from a bona fide sourdough culture.

CL

That's a great suggestion. I don't know how to do the sourdough culture though but I am pretty sure at the Pizza Making Forum I could find something that can teach me how. I should try it and see or should I say taste how it goes.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2012, 11:11:16 PM »
Throw everything out and make a new batch of dough.  :chef:
And see if it tastes super....

LOL it does taste super already regardless of sourish taste or not.

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2012, 08:54:41 AM »
James,

I have some Ischia starter in my fridge now, but it isnít active.  If you want me to feed it and then dry some, I would be happy to send you some to try to see if you can taste the differences in making dough and the final pizza with a starter compared to how your pizzas taste now.  You would need to understand how to fed the starter once it is activated again from a dried state and also understand how to use the preferment dough calculation tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment_calculator.html  You also have to be able to understand or be willing to experiment with different amounts of preferment in a dough.  Using a preferment sure isnít as easy as using IDY or ADY. 

You would also need to watch the starter to see when it is ready to be used and also to see when it is really active. 

Norma 

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2012, 05:43:52 PM »
James,

I have some Ischia starter in my fridge now, but it isnít active.  If you want me to feed it and then dry some, I would be happy to send you some to try to see if you can taste the differences in making dough and the final pizza with a starter compared to how your pizzas taste now.  You would need to understand how to fed the starter once it is activated again from a dried state and also understand how to use the preferment dough calculation tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/preferment_calculator.html  You also have to be able to understand or be willing to experiment with different amounts of preferment in a dough.  Using a preferment sure isnít as easy as using IDY or ADY. 

You would also need to watch the starter to see when it is ready to be used and also to see when it is really active. 

Norma 

Thank you very much. I would like that. I could send you my home address in Facebook. I will send you a message there with my address. I have to head on out now but tonight I will message you in FB with my address.

I will do my reading on how this works and figure out how to use it.


Thank You!

Offline norma427

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2013, 08:15:01 PM »
James,

Did you have a chance to try out the dried-out Ischia starter I sent you?  If you need more help on activating it, or don't understand what to do with the starter let us know.

Norma

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2013, 01:03:53 PM »
James,

Did you have a chance to try out the dried-out Ischia starter I sent you?  If you need more help on activating it, or don't understand what to do with the starter let us know.

Norma

Hi Norma, sorry for late response to your posting.  I started a new job a month and a half a go and have strange hours, I work late afternoon and night so I'm always tired have not adjusted yet. 

Thank you very much for the starter. I have not made pizza yet because I became ill when I first started my job but they wanted me to go to work as long as I could handle it. They were not afraid of getting sick. I had a cold that lingered for a month. So I was tired and sick but didn't do much of anything outside of work. Now I am ready to make the pizza.

I am really curious how the starter will make the dough taste.

Could you give me some instruction on how to use the starter? I did some research but I am kind of confused on that. I want to make pizza and want to make it but want to make sure I don't mess up the nice starter you gave me.


Thank You,


James

Offline norma427

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Re: Why Does My Dough Taste Like Sour Dough?
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2013, 01:37:52 PM »

I have not made pizza yet because I became ill when I first started my job but they wanted me to go to work as long as I could handle it. They were not afraid of getting sick. I had a cold that lingered for a month. So I was tired and sick but didn't do much of anything outside of work. Now I am ready to make the pizza.

I am really curious how the starter will make the dough taste.

Could you give me some instruction on how to use the starter? I did some research but I am kind of confused on that. I want to make pizza and want to make it but want to make sure I don't mess up the nice starter you gave me.


Thank You,


James

James,

Sorry to hear you were ill.

If the starter is used right in pizza doughs, they will be a nice flavor in the crust, not a real sour taste.  I donít know how your tastes will be when trying a sourdough pizza.   

Craigís thread is very good.  It is at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22649.0.html  I donít work a lot with starters, so if you are having problems understanding anything maybe other members that have more experience with starters can help you.  To understand starters more than more experiment is needed.

Norma


 

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