Author Topic: Finally - It's time!  (Read 2812 times)

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Offline ThePizzaBiatch

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Finally - It's time!
« on: December 03, 2012, 11:11:42 AM »
So, after blood, sweat and many blisters from carrying CMU's, my oven is complete.  The additional ceramic insulation is apparently effective!  Capped it off last night with the uninsulated door (insulated one being welded now!) last night.  It was 950 on the dome average, and nothing but embers on the hearth.  This morning, 12 hours later, it was averaging 660 on the dome.  Very happy with the results so far...I attached some pics.

So, after many years of working on NY style pies, and doing my best at Neo-Nea with rigged up home ovens, I feel like I'm a newbie all over again!  So, a few questions for those of you not new to the WFO world.

1.  Wood Selection.  I've got a 1/2 cord of white oak, in smaller cuts for the oven.  Working great, but what about flavor?  Any other woods recommended for my next delivery in the Spring?

2.  Best "Basic" formula.  I've been using a 60% hydration dough, but it's been made with 50/50 Bread / AT Flour.  Now with my high heat, could you all point me to your favorite formula you've had success with?  I'll be using IDY until my starter takes hold (I lost my last one during the move in an ugly contest with the tile floor) - hopefully next week.

3.  Homemade cheese.  I have everything I need for homemade mozzarella.  What have your results been in this regard vs. store bought?

4.  Bosch mixer.  Any bosch users out there that would recommend a Neapolitan knead time / speed that's been successful for them?

Again, thanks for all the inputs!  Always great around here.  I'll post first pies this weekend.


Offline csafranek

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2012, 11:29:52 AM »
WOW!!! I am jealous!! That looks awesome!

Offline JConk007

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 11:30:51 AM »
WOW !!  :o thats some nice oven you have built and inside ! I am envious!
Lots of great dough threads on the forum using 00 flour for the neapolitan style  TXCraig will put up link to his How I thread I hope.  
Hard and dry wood work well red oak. cherry... apple, hickory all great options where are you located ?
Enjoy the oven
John
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 11:32:35 AM »
Beautiful set-up! Simply gorgeous.

With respect to your questions:

1) Oak is probably the best choice. Lost of fuel/weight and usually the lowest price. Any other hard/fruit wood will work. There will be no flavor differences regardless of the wood choice. It's too hot (the components that give smoke flavor completely burn up) and the cook time is too fast.

2) http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20479.0.html

3) I've not personally made it, but the homemade (made from purchased curds) was better than any cows milk mozz I've ever bought.

4) The Bosch Universal Plus seems to have a good following and can make a much larger back of dough that an KA.

Good luck. Let me know if you have any questions after looking at the link above.

Craig
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2012, 11:40:53 AM »
Awesome stone work.  The first thing my wife would say is how do you keep the ants and spiders living in the wood and not on the sofa?
Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2012, 11:43:46 AM »
Simply fantastic installation, very well done. That gives me some ideas for some future installations  ;D
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Offline RobynB

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 12:02:44 PM »
Beautiful!!  That is some gorgeous brickwork.  Is the oven custom-built, or is there a purchased oven in there?  (If you have already posted about it in another thread, I apologize but I missed it) 

Which Bosch do you have?  They make a few models and each is very different.

Congratulations on creating a beautiful space.

Offline pizzaneer

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 12:27:59 PM »
Very, very impressive... but confusing because of the couch and armchairs, was expecting a dining room.   What's up with that? 

Also, as Gene inquired, how do you plan to keep the bugs under control?
I'd rather eat one good meal a day than 3 squares of garbage.

Offline weemis

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 01:13:24 PM »
Beautiful!!  That is some gorgeous brickwork.  Is the oven custom-built, or is there a purchased oven in there?  (If you have already posted about it in another thread, I apologize but I missed it) 

Which Bosch do you have?  They make a few models and each is very different.

Congratulations on creating a beautiful space.

check out this thread:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20571.msg203606.html#msg203606
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer


Offline pizza dr

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 02:02:25 PM »
I may be wrong here but that looks to be outside.  I think its just a very nice enclosed patio. 

Scot

Offline ThePizzaBiatch

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 02:18:51 PM »
I may be wrong here but that looks to be outside.  I think its just a very nice enclosed patio. 

Scot

Yep, glorified patio.  The dining table and chairs are on order and will sit in the 12 feet behind the couches / chair.  Oven ended up at perfect height to sit on the chairs and watch the fire roar.  Had a couple negroni's last night doing just that!

Battling the ants and bugs with a good friend who owns a pest control company!  And yes, that was one of my wife's first questions, too.  Though she included "mice" in the question / demand.  He's assured me that he can create a "barrier" around the patio that will work without fail!  We will see.

The engine is a Forno Bravo Casa2g100 - but with additional ceramic blanket and board for insulation.  The hearth sits on 5" of ceramic fiber board, and the dome is covered in about 8" of ceramic fiber blanket.  I did not insulate above that with vermiculite as I didn't want to crush the blankets with any weight.  Seems to be working pretty well.

Thanks for the info - and any tips / hits beyond these are welcome and appreciated.  I felt like I was creating what i wanted in my oven - but excited by the new temps and the new possibilities.  Can't wait to make tapas, Neapolitans, NY styles, etc. etc.

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2012, 02:22:02 PM »
TPB,  nice setup,  as for the bosch mixing,  try combining for roughly one minute,  this is a spot where the bosch seems to be superior to just about anything else except a VCM.  Let rest 10-20 minutes your call.  If using same day,  mix for 5-6 minutes after.  if cold fermenting for multiple days,  you can do a few minutes less.  You can adjust from there.  If your doughs are too tough,  back off on the mix time.  Some members use the bosch mostly for combining,  then hand knead or stretch and fold from there.  Good luck!  -marc


edt: misaddressed
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 02:47:35 PM by widespreadpizza »

Offline ThePizzaBiatch

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2012, 02:23:05 PM »
Beautiful set-up! Simply gorgeous.

With respect to your questions:

1) Oak is probably the best choice. Lost of fuel/weight and usually the lowest price. Any other hard/fruit wood will work. There will be no flavor differences regardless of the wood choice. It's too hot (the components that give smoke flavor completely burn up) and the cook time is too fast.

2) http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20479.0.html

3) I've not personally made it, but the homemade (made from purchased curds) was better than any cows milk mozz I've ever bought.

4) The Bosch Universal Plus seems to have a good following and can make a much larger back of dough that an KA.

Good luck. Let me know if you have any questions after looking at the link above.

Craig

Thanks, Craig.  The link looks perfect for what I need - thanks for the legwork on finding it.  I'm using white oak now, and never thought about the high heat burning up any flavor cues from the wood.  White oak it will remain!  I'm going to give the cows milk mozz a try and see how it goes - now if I could just find a buffalo milker!

Thanks again with the help.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2012, 02:45:01 PM »
Yeah Baby!!!   An a nice 'lil crash pad to boot..... 8)
I like your style Mr. Biatch.  ;)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2012, 03:41:25 PM »
Though she included "mice" in the question / demand.  He's assured me that he can create a "barrier" around the patio that will work without fail!  We will see.

You might want to give the rodent issue more serious consideration. Mice (and snakes) around here scale vertical walls with ease; I'd be very curious to know how your friend intends to protect an exposed wood pile. Rodents in my area are vectors for some deadly diseases such as hantavirus and bubonic plague. They love woodpiles, especially ones that abut warm walls in the winter. The rule around here is that exposed wood goes as far from the house as possible and a few feet above the ground. I guess it depends where you live.

BTW, beautiful craftsmanship on the oven. 
Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2012, 04:04:18 PM »
He could go ahead and simply enclose that wood pile with some handsome metal work, no?
Two sides are already taken care of....
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2012, 04:32:26 PM »
He could go ahead and simply enclose that wood pile with some handsome metal work, no?
Two sides are already taken care of....

Yes. I have some enclosed cabinets in my ODK to have wood at hand. The rest is stored near the property line. If rodents are a problem in the OP's patio, that would be a great solution.

Although I try to keep the area as clean as possible, little spills on the counters and floor are going to attract critters. I put out traps to keep the population under control and also wipe the prep area down with disinfectant before each session.
Sometimes I use big words that I donít fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis. - @itjenlawrence


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 04:39:22 PM »
Good tips Bill....

"Rodents in my area are vectors for some deadly diseases such as hantavirus and bubonic plague. "
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline thezaman

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2012, 07:25:24 PM »
that patio is beautiful !!! if you pm me i have a dvd on making cheese from curd. craig is right if you follow proper temperatures and times curd is very hard to beat in flavor or texture.

Offline JConk007

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 09:36:01 PM »
Dont forget to add one of those DIY prep rails  for the bigger parties ? you make the pizzas there above the wood pile correct? Craig has a thread on that as well. Maybe just reduce the pile and enclose a smaller portion?  and use the space for refridgeration and cabbinets all the othe pizza gizmos! just build another enclosure awya from the house for the snakes ! I have a same oven on my mobile rig   and that pile of wood is enough for about 10 + (BIG)Parties ! I  get three,  3-4+ hour burns out of the amount of wood in Pic below   Have Fun !!
Did you get you GI tools yet ?  ;)
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Offline taylorpetrehn

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2012, 10:37:38 PM »
That oven looks so so good! Well done. Do you have a thread anywhere for your build on the oven? I'm interested to know how thick you built the hearth and how much insulation you used underneath as well?

Offline ThePizzaBiatch

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2012, 11:41:52 AM »
That oven looks so so good! Well done. Do you have a thread anywhere for your build on the oven? I'm interested to know how thick you built the hearth and how much insulation you used underneath as well?


I don't on this forum but can give you a run down.  If you want more specifics, just PM me and I can walk you through what I did right, and what I had to correct as I went.  I built the CMU full base, spanning slab w/ rebar, etc.

After putting up a simple square foundation of CMU's, I filled every other hole with rebar and QuickCrete.  Then I built a simple form out of 2x6's for the sides, and used concrete board for the bottom support of the slab, and used metal studs for support to keep it from bowing.  I then used extensive amount of rebar throughout, and poured QuickCrete (long evening!) for the slab.  I purposely underpoured the slab to leave the surface rough and under top grade.  This was about my only added thoughts to the basic process.  Instead of trusting myself to do good finish work, I left it short of top grade.  Then I bought a couple bags of self-leveling concrete.  I mixed this the next day to a slurry, poured it over the slab and - wow! - it was like glass, and perfectly level.  My hearth was very happy!

Prior to laying the hearth, I used 5" of ceramic fiber board insulation rated to 2000 degrees, cut to about 5" outside of my hearth size.  It went down, then my hearth was laid on a bed of notched troweled silica sand.  The leveling process was arduous, but it came out pretty nice.  From there, I laid on the monster chunks of refractory (FornoBravo Casa2G100).  I joined these from the exterior only with 100 pounds of refractory mortar.  Then set on the obscenely expensive 8" insulated stainless steel chimney and used fireplace caulk to seal.

On top of that came about 8" of ceramic fiber blanket.  I ended up leaving it alone after that, and not adding any vermiculite.  I didn't want the blanket compressed, and figured I'd try the vermiculite only if I didn't have good heat retention - doesn't look like I'll need it as it was averaging 350 degrees 24 hours after the last flame went out on it's first full fire.  And that was without an insulated door.

From there, I framed it with metal studs and put on concrete board to wrap it and prep it for the finish work - which I paid someone to do so I didn't butcher it!  The final piece was having the matching granite top and hearth placed. 

There are obviously 100 other little things that have to be done between all those steps, but that's the "big picture".  The best thing I did was render it many times in a simple drawing application on my mac, with dimensions.  At each stage, i had renderings next to me to use.  This was invaluable in determining layouts, and space for studs, chimney, etc.  If you have specifics you want to know, just message me, I'd be happy to help out so you don't have any of the frustrations I encountered - which luckily were few for a newbie!

Offline taylorpetrehn

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Re: Finally - It's time!
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2012, 12:18:56 PM »
I'd be happy to help out so you don't have any of the frustrations I encountered - which luckily were few for a newbie!

Thanks for the info! I really was just curious, I built the oven in my picture roughly using the pompeii plans from forno bravo. TONS of work! So I can relate.

I used 5 inches of vermicrete under my hearth and then 4.5 inches of the ceramic blanket all over the dome. It holds heat very well on the dome but leaks very slightly underneath.

Good work!