Author Topic: Need expert help  (Read 13722 times)

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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2012, 03:47:46 PM »
I did mark, had no toppings or cheese in the larder so it was tomato paste salt n pepper  :-[ and please bear in mind it was a dough made quickly just to try out the set up  ;D
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 04:01:34 PM by Pizzaboyo »
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Offline mkevenson

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2012, 05:23:15 PM »
To my eyes, old as they are, it appears that the bottom crust browning is a bit more pronounced than the top crust. If you increased your cook time your bottom would be darker. Redirecting heat to the top of the oven could = out the top browning, spraying the edge of the crust with oil prior to cooking should also darken the top. Is the crust texture to your liking? ie crisp, soft etc.

From your original post it looks like things are improving, what do you think?

Mark

"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

scott123

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2012, 06:32:12 PM »
PB, do you have a larger photo of the oven setup? I can't really see what's going on.  The fan is visible on the back wall of the oven, right?

Thick stones, with their extra thermal mass, will perform better than thinner stones, but the downside is that they take considerably longer to heat up.  If you're not open to the idea of 90+ minute pre-heat (and the energy bill they might entail), then I think you're ready for steel. 540F with 1/2" steel is perfect for NY style pizza and will give you all the undercrust char you could ever want. The only downside to steel is that it's heavy/hard to get in and out of the oven.

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2012, 03:45:06 AM »
Cheers guys,I'm happy with the progress so far and confident of a good result on friday night I'll try out the longer pre heat too.  :chef: here's the pic of the oven scott (I'm only getting the hang of posting pics)
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2013, 04:16:21 PM »
I did it, I finally got char  :chef: Made a low hydration dough and placed the stone in the grill pan that fits tight from front and sides. Turned grill on high for 1 hour (with door open to keep grill on) and the stone temp reached 630. Placed pizza on stone and shut the door and in 5 minutes this is the result.
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2013, 04:32:07 PM »
Congrats PB...what are you using for sauce on that pie?
Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2013, 06:32:45 PM »
A tin of tomato paste,honey,paprika,cayenne,dried basil salt 'n pep. No measurements just add to taste. (I like the burnt/charred sauce round the rim) :-\ any tips there bob??
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 06:35:08 PM by Pizzaboyo »
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Offline mkevenson

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2013, 06:40:32 PM »
PB, nice color, nice spring, overall nice pie. You certainly are are the right track to your goal.
Congrats!

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2013, 06:58:55 PM »
A tin of tomato paste,honey,paprika,cayenne,dried basil salt 'n pep. No measurements just add to taste. (I like the burnt/charred sauce round the rim) :-\ any tips there bob??
Well...if you add water to the paste you will have tomato puree and that will give you a whole different flavor profile that you may like and you can still apply the raw paste on your rim/cornicione. Try it, I think you'll like it.
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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2013, 04:55:10 AM »
Sorry CB, puree/paste,tomato/tomata  :P this is what I used http://www.superquinn.ie/shopping/shopping/shop.aspx?prodid=90076003. I find I get a richer stronger tomato flavor.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 06:22:21 AM by Pizzaboyo »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2013, 01:03:18 PM »
Sorry CB, puree/paste,tomato/tomata  :P this is what I used http://www.superquinn.ie/shopping/shopping/shop.aspx?prodid=90076003. I find I get a richer stronger tomato flavor.
PB, your link requires membership but I assume it was to show some type of "puree" product.
Whew!....ya had me a 'lil concerned there cause I thought you were spreading raw paste on your pizza   :-D

It sure looked like it though on the set-up test skin that you did.... ;D
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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2013, 01:58:32 PM »
You laughing at my test CB??? ::) I don't even know the difference between paste and puree  :-[
It's this stuff
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 02:02:22 PM by Pizzaboyo »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2013, 04:24:51 PM »
Oh no...not laughing! I admire your determination.  ;D
Tomato puree is made from tomato paste and water combined. Packed/canned puree is often diluted even further with additional water added because it can be quite thick depending on the brand. And in your case it appears that you have a very thick brand of puree.
PB, do they have any "ground" or "crushed" whole tomato products there in Ireland? Have you checked out the forum glossary yet?  The second entry on the list is "6 IN 1 TOMATOES:"...take a look and then click on the link in that definition(link to  Escalon Premier Brands products)
Bob
 


http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 04:26:47 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2013, 05:17:42 PM »
Thanks for not laughing at me Bob, sure I'm only a young lad trying me best  :angel:
These are the (Irish) options. The double concentrate is in small 280g packets so sometimes I add it to a tin of whole or chopped tomatoes.The zia rosa d.o.p. come whole or chopped and taste great but I personally find them too watery for my taste (although I have drained them and reduced the liquor to make a thick sauce to use) basically here its "roma" products then cirio and in one store the zia rosa after that its all store brands which aint worth talking about.I noticed 6 in 1 rank highly here but it's not to be found around here.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 05:26:05 PM by Pizzaboyo »
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2013, 05:31:46 PM »
PB,
The passata looks like it would be perfect for the type of pizza you made above. Can you get the La Rustica style of passata? Either one will probably be great.
 How much is a tin of the D.O.P.'s over there....what size can.
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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2013, 05:34:23 PM »
It's either cirio or roma buddy  ;D would it not be a bit runny??
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

scott123

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2013, 05:38:17 PM »
PB, Bob's assessment of your tomatoes is on the money.  I've worked with a few UK purees and passatas and, unfortunately, they tend to be darker/more cooked then their equivalents across pond. When they're dark like this, they get sweeter (and brown faster), but they also lose their bright, fresh flavor.

Whole tomatoes bashed with a hand blender will generally give you the freshest flavor, but... they'll have a tendency to be packed in a very watery juice, so you almost always have to pour most of the juice off to end up with a good consistency sauce. This can lower the yield and make them costly. Your finely chopped tomato option (again, hand blended for a bit) might be the best choice, but I'd go the whole tomato route once or twice so you have a clear idea of the bright flavor and bright red color that you should be looking for. If the finely chopped tomatoes can't match the color flavor of the whole ones, then you might need to stick to whole or find finely chopped tomatoes (or crushed) elsewhere.

The pies are looking much better (congrats), but the crumb is looking a bit dry, and I think you can dial back the thickness factor a bit.  Plug your figures in the dough calculator using a thickness factor of .085:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html

and copy and paste the final results here. Once we see the percentages, we can perhaps adjust the water (hydration) and get you a little more moisture in your crumb.



Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2013, 05:43:28 PM »
passata La Rustico is a Cirio product, that's why I asked...http://www.cirio.it/index.php?section=prodotti&cat=1-i-rossi

And we have a little trick to make tomato sauces any consistency you choose...into a fine mesh screen for about 10 min or so usually does it for the ground tomato products we use here.
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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2013, 05:57:36 PM »
Sorry bob that was the novice coming out in me again  :-[ but I've never come across that passata here in IRELAND (not uk scott  ;)) The sieve thing is what I usually do bob with the zia rosa and give a little crush with a fork and S'nP. This is by far the best I've had and use. Scott thanks for your comment and I've tried use the calculator with different figures but to be totally honest hydration/desired oil/desired sugar etc. is totally over my head. the formula I'm using at the moment is
Flour 100% 175.98g
Water 56% 98.55g (theres the problem)
idy .75% 1.32g
salt 1% 1.76g
sugar (sometimes honey) 2% 3.52g

Is this any good or is Bob laughing at me again  ::)
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

scott123

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2013, 06:07:23 PM »
Ireland, of course.

56% water is definitely too low, imo.  Next time, bump it up to 58%

The dough calculator might seem a bit intimidating, but it's really not that complicated once you start using it.  If you don't use an ingredient (such as oil) leave it blank. If you have any question about using the calculator, ask. It's really critical that you become comfortable using it, as the figures it calculates are integral to helping us help you.

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2013, 06:15:47 PM »
Cheers Scott, I'll be making a dough tomorrow for Friday night so 58% it will be  :chef: Is "OO" flour any use in a home oven? I've read different reports.
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2013, 06:40:01 PM »
How's this??
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2013, 06:57:23 PM »
How's this??

Looks good, maybe cut your yeast in half...idy? You can up the salt later if needed(taste)
I've been seeing some good results herewith half "00" and half BF(bread flower). What all do you have available?
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2013, 07:07:24 PM »
To get started with the calculator you will need to know either a TF(thickness factor) or a weight(i.e.300g) for the dough you want to create. Take a look around in the NY section and get acquainted with amounts that people are using PB. The very top of the list is a great place to begin....http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.0.html
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scott123

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2013, 07:09:04 PM »
Is "OO" flour any use in a home oven?

It depends on who you ask ;D If you're asking me, no, it's of no use in a home oven- at least, not in any home oven that can't do Neapolitan bake times, which is 99.97% of home ovens.

You don't have to post the calculations as an image. If you click on the copy button at the bottom of the calculator, you can post them in a message here and they'll be formatted for ideal legibility.

Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
IDY (.5%):
Salt (1.75%):
Oil (1%):
Sugar (2%):
Total (163.25%):
166.94 g  |  5.89 oz | 0.37 lbs
96.83 g  |  3.42 oz | 0.21 lbs
0.83 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.28 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
2.92 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
1.67 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
3.34 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.84 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
272.54 g | 9.61 oz | 0.6 lbs | TF = 0.085

For the TF (Thickness Factor), use .085 and for the salt, go with 1.75%.  Other than that, it looks good.


 

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