Author Topic: Need expert help  (Read 9199 times)

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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2013, 05:34:23 PM »
It's either cirio or roma buddy  ;D would it not be a bit runny??
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Offline scott123

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2013, 05:38:17 PM »
PB, Bob's assessment of your tomatoes is on the money.  I've worked with a few UK purees and passatas and, unfortunately, they tend to be darker/more cooked then their equivalents across pond. When they're dark like this, they get sweeter (and brown faster), but they also lose their bright, fresh flavor.

Whole tomatoes bashed with a hand blender will generally give you the freshest flavor, but... they'll have a tendency to be packed in a very watery juice, so you almost always have to pour most of the juice off to end up with a good consistency sauce. This can lower the yield and make them costly. Your finely chopped tomato option (again, hand blended for a bit) might be the best choice, but I'd go the whole tomato route once or twice so you have a clear idea of the bright flavor and bright red color that you should be looking for. If the finely chopped tomatoes can't match the color flavor of the whole ones, then you might need to stick to whole or find finely chopped tomatoes (or crushed) elsewhere.

The pies are looking much better (congrats), but the crumb is looking a bit dry, and I think you can dial back the thickness factor a bit.  Plug your figures in the dough calculator using a thickness factor of .085:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/dough_calculator.html

and copy and paste the final results here. Once we see the percentages, we can perhaps adjust the water (hydration) and get you a little more moisture in your crumb.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2013, 05:43:28 PM »
passata La Rustico is a Cirio product, that's why I asked...http://www.cirio.it/index.php?section=prodotti&cat=1-i-rossi

And we have a little trick to make tomato sauces any consistency you choose...into a fine mesh screen for about 10 min or so usually does it for the ground tomato products we use here.
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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2013, 05:57:36 PM »
Sorry bob that was the novice coming out in me again  :-[ but I've never come across that passata here in IRELAND (not uk scott  ;)) The sieve thing is what I usually do bob with the zia rosa and give a little crush with a fork and S'nP. This is by far the best I've had and use. Scott thanks for your comment and I've tried use the calculator with different figures but to be totally honest hydration/desired oil/desired sugar etc. is totally over my head. the formula I'm using at the moment is
Flour 100% 175.98g
Water 56% 98.55g (theres the problem)
idy .75% 1.32g
salt 1% 1.76g
sugar (sometimes honey) 2% 3.52g

Is this any good or is Bob laughing at me again  ::)
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline scott123

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2013, 06:07:23 PM »
Ireland, of course.

56% water is definitely too low, imo.  Next time, bump it up to 58%

The dough calculator might seem a bit intimidating, but it's really not that complicated once you start using it.  If you don't use an ingredient (such as oil) leave it blank. If you have any question about using the calculator, ask. It's really critical that you become comfortable using it, as the figures it calculates are integral to helping us help you.

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2013, 06:15:47 PM »
Cheers Scott, I'll be making a dough tomorrow for Friday night so 58% it will be  :chef: Is "OO" flour any use in a home oven? I've read different reports.
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2013, 06:40:01 PM »
How's this??
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2013, 06:57:23 PM »
How's this??

Looks good, maybe cut your yeast in half...idy? You can up the salt later if needed(taste)
I've been seeing some good results herewith half "00" and half BF(bread flower). What all do you have available?
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #48 on: January 15, 2013, 07:07:24 PM »
To get started with the calculator you will need to know either a TF(thickness factor) or a weight(i.e.300g) for the dough you want to create. Take a look around in the NY section and get acquainted with amounts that people are using PB. The very top of the list is a great place to begin....http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.0.html
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Offline scott123

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2013, 07:09:04 PM »
Is "OO" flour any use in a home oven?

It depends on who you ask ;D If you're asking me, no, it's of no use in a home oven- at least, not in any home oven that can't do Neapolitan bake times, which is 99.97% of home ovens.

You don't have to post the calculations as an image. If you click on the copy button at the bottom of the calculator, you can post them in a message here and they'll be formatted for ideal legibility.

Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
IDY (.5%):
Salt (1.75%):
Oil (1%):
Sugar (2%):
Total (163.25%):
166.94 g  |  5.89 oz | 0.37 lbs
96.83 g  |  3.42 oz | 0.21 lbs
0.83 g | 0.03 oz | 0 lbs | 0.28 tsp | 0.09 tbsp
2.92 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
1.67 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
3.34 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.84 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
272.54 g | 9.61 oz | 0.6 lbs | TF = 0.085

For the TF (Thickness Factor), use .085 and for the salt, go with 1.75%.  Other than that, it looks good.


Offline scott123

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2013, 07:37:59 PM »
PB, does the flour you're using list protein quantities per 100g?

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2013, 04:06:39 AM »
Right how's this???

Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
IDY (.25%):
Salt (1.75%):
Oil (1%):
Sugar (2%):
Total (163%):
167.2 g  |  5.9 oz | 0.37 lbs
96.98 g  |  3.42 oz | 0.21 lbs
0.42 g | 0.01 oz | 0 lbs | 0.14 tsp | 0.05 tbsp
2.93 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
1.67 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.37 tsp | 0.12 tbsp
3.34 g | 0.12 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.84 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
272.54 g | 9.61 oz | 0.6 lbs | TF = 0.085

Scott,I'll have an answer to your "flour protein" later on.
Question. I refrigerate the dough and then let it come to room temp for a few hours before use, when I take it from the bowl do I knead it again or just shape it and use it? Sometimes I knead a bit, ball it and leave to rise again for a while and then shape. Sometimes I shape it and leave it under a towel for 15min or so to rise a bit again while I get the other ingredients ready but it seems to get wetter/stickier  I know I've said "sometimes"  lot so it's obvious there's no consistency.(told you I was a novice  :-[)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 04:33:40 AM by Pizzaboyo »
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2013, 10:17:30 AM »
Kneading just before use usually turns it into a rubber band PB. When you try to stretch the dough it will keep springing back big time. Just put on the counter in the container you had it in coming from the fridge and leave it the h e double hockey sticks alone or you're gonna have a hockey puck on your hands man. :)
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Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2013, 10:59:50 AM »
Loud and clear CB, step away from the dough  ;D
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2013, 11:18:00 AM »
Good noobie..... :-D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2013, 04:47:48 AM »
Good noobie..... :-D
You are the master I've come to school  ;D (name that song)
Scott,the flour packet tells me is there's Wheat flour,vital wheat gluten,calcium carbonate and alpha-amylase and there's 11g of protein per 100g.
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline scott123

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2013, 07:22:16 AM »
PB, you can use up what's left, but that's the last time you're using that flour.

Foul tasting vital wheat gluten AND it only clocks in at a paltry 11%? They've got a lot of nerve selling that stuff.

In Ireland, you have one advantage that we don't, our nutritional labels work with small quantities and round the numbers, so they're useless for gauging protein levels.  With your 100g serving label, you can gauge the protein far better.

Start looking, in multiple markets, for any flour that references 'strong' or 'Canadian' or both.  Your goal should be either 12, 13 or 14g of protein per 100g.  The ingredients should NOT list vital wheat gluten.

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2013, 11:06:54 AM »
Man this is getting complicated,that flour is listed as strong bread flour and comes from the biggest supplier in Ireland and a household name for centuries  ::) http://www.odlums.ie/index.php?page=know-your-flours I think I can get this which has 12.5g of protein http://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/flour-and-ingredients/organic-flour/organic-strong-white-bread-flour-x-15kg/ but that's the limit, no wonder we live on spuds 'n cabbage  :-[
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 11:08:27 AM by Pizzaboyo »
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2013, 11:58:36 AM »
Man this is getting complicated,that flour is listed as strong bread flour and comes from the biggest supplier in Ireland and a household name for centuries  ::) http://www.odlums.ie/index.php?page=know-your-flours I think I can get this which has 12.5g of protein http://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/flour-and-ingredients/organic-flour/organic-strong-white-bread-flour-x-15kg/ but that's the limit, no wonder we live on spuds 'n cabbage  :-[
Oh this is just the tip of the iceburg mate....it get's much more totally scrummy!  ;D
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Pizzaboyo

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Re: Need expert help
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2013, 12:25:36 PM »
Oh this is just the tip of the iceburg mate....it get's much more totally scrummy!  ;D
BUT I'm in over my head since page one  :-\
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.