ELASTICITY PROBLEMS.......

[Chicago Bob]

@COL I forgot to ask you what order you put your stuff in.

I usually put the flour and IDY in the bowl and mix it together. Then I dump the salt into the water and stir it to incorporate.  Make a well in the middle dump in the liquid and let it go on 1 for 2 minutes. Add the OO and do 2 more on 1. Then I did the 7 min on 3.

7 minutes on speed 3?    MOCIGARS, if you do nothing else but drop that last mixing I believe you will be good to go.  
Bob

[MOCIGARS]

Thanks Bob et all for the help........

I made 2 test balls one with the original recipe posted and one with the following Peter converted for me.
 
All Trumps Flour (100%): 284.13 g  |  10.02 oz | 0.63 lbs
Water (56.25%):  159.83 g  |  5.64 oz | 0.35 lbs
IDY (0.473%): 1.34 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.45 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
Salt (1.34%): 3.81 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.68 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
Canola Oil (1.58%): 4.49 g | 0.16 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.99 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Total (159.643%): 453.6 g | 16 oz | 1 lbs | TF = N/A
   
I eliminated the last mixing and they are in the fridge cooling. I will give them 24 hours then take them out @ 1PM tomorrow to warm up for stretching @ 4:30. I believe eliminating that step is the key.  I didn't realize that the bromated flour didn't need all that mixing.

Mo,

In my basic KitchenAid stand mixer, the stir speed does not do much in the way of kneading but since you are using a bromated flour (the KASL flour is not bromated),

I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out tomorrow......Will let you know....

MO

[Chicago Bob]

MO,
The recipe Peter converted for you uses (56.25%) water?

[MOCIGARS]

That is what the recipe was that was used by a former member on here that I found on a old thread reply 15 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20342.msg200617.html#msg200617 The pizza looked exactly like the kind I was trying to mimic so I figured why not give it a try. Peter was so kind as to convert it for me since I am mathematically challenged ! 

[Chicago Bob]

The hydration you used with the All Trumps is a bit over 65% (7.7/11.8 = 65.3%). The All Trumps has a rated absorption value of 63% but it should be able to handle 65%. However, if that results in a dough that is too sticky, you can lower the hydration value to 63% by using 7.4 ounces of water. Ideally, you want the dough to be a bit on the tacky side. At 63% hydration, I think you may find that you do not have to add bench flour or only a small amount.

?

[Don K]

?

I think that Mo is separately trying two different recipes Bob. The one that is 56.25 was AimlessRyan's and the other is Crusty's.

[MOCIGARS]

That is 100% correct Don...

[Chicago Bob]

Oh, sorry...I thought he was , oh nevermind.
Good luck MOCIGARS! 

[MOCIGARS]

Here is the result of my test with less mixing time. Here is pictures of Crusty's recipe that I made. It was very good but not as good as the 60 hour cold rise version of Crusty's I made last week. The dough was allot easier to work with and I still need to work on my opening the dough technique (that is why it is square)

I learned allot from this.......

I moved my rack with the quarry tiles to the second from the top and got a crust that Mrs. Mo and I enjoy. On Friday I had the tiles on the rack second from bottom and that gave me a more brick over style bottom.

I also learned I like the taste of the crust without sugar in the dough.  I am looking forward to trying Don's recipe with honey that he gave me last night and lower hydration rate.

I have the perfect recipe for pizza dough bubble gum !  

Thanks to everyone who helped me with my problems. I feel I have a recipe for pizza I can make at home and really enjoy.

[MOCIGARS]

Here are the pictures of the Ryan's recipe that I used. As Don suggest this dough was easier to work with due to the lower hydration factor. Thus more round of a shape. It is a lil deformed since I had some issues getting it into the oven off the peel I was using.

[MOCIGARS]

After my experiment today I have a question for the experts. If I lower the hydration rate as suggest by Peter for
the recipe I like, will it affect the taste allot ? I am thinking lowering the rate will make it even more manageable but obviously don't want to sacrifice taste. You guys have created a monster now !

The hydration you used with the All Trumps is a bit over 65% (7.7/11.8 = 65.3%). The All Trumps has a rated absorption value of 63% but it should be able to handle 65%. However, if that results in a dough that is too sticky, you can lower the hydration value to 63% by using 7.4 ounces of water. Ideally, you want the dough to be a bit on the tacky side. At 63% hydration.


Peter

[Pete-zza]

After my experiment today I have a question for the experts. If I lower the hydration rate as suggest by Peter for the recipe I like, will it affect the taste allot ? I am thinking lowering the rate will make it even more manageable but obviously don't want to sacrifice taste. You guys have created a monster now !

Mo,

I don't use bromated flours but I do not believe that the crust flavor will change because of the lower hydration. The crust texture may change (maybe a bit less open crumb) but not the flavor. BTW, you can go as low as around 58% hydration with the AT flour. That is quite common among professionals but you will end up with a tighter crumb. Some member start on the low side with their hydration values and gradually work up from there until they are most happy.

Peter

[MOCIGARS]

GREAT NEWS ! As I said earlier, the 56% was a noticeable difference. I look forward to trying it.   
Thanks Pater.....

[pythonic]

@pythonic How long do you mix when you use the AT ? Does the percentages I am using come close to what you use ?

Thanks
Mo

Mo,

I use a blend of King Arthur All Purpose and All Trumps Bromated to ensure that it isn't over mixed/kneaded.  (4-5 mins total on speed 1-2).  48hr cold rise, reball after 24hrs for best ovenspring and lightness.



Here are the percentages I use.

All Trumps - 60%
KAAP - 40%
Water - 63.5%
IDY - 0.30%
Salt - 1.7%
Oil - 4.4%
Sugar - 1%


Let me know if you have any other questions.

Nate

[MOCIGARS]

Thanks Nate, Another new recipe to try ! much appreciated......

[pythonic]

Thanks Nate, Another new recipe to try ! much appreciated......

You're welcome.  Definitely up your highdration from 56%.  All Trumps produces some beautiful light and airy crusts and awesome ovenspring.

[MOCIGARS]

Hello all..... I tried to use 63% hydration as suggested by Peter since it is the rated absorption for AT..

Mo,

The hydration you used with the All Trumps is a bit over 65% (7.7/11.8 = 65.3%). The All Trumps has a rated absorption value of 63% but it should be able to handle 65%. However, if that results in a dough that is too sticky, you can lower the hydration value to 63% by using 7.4 ounces of water. Ideally, you want the dough to be a bit on the tacky side. At 63% hydration, I think you may find that you do not have to add bench flour or only a small amount.

Peter

I kept all of the other measurements the same except for the OO I doubled it......

11.8 oz KASL I used ALL TRUMPS 50111
7.4 oz spring water at 76degrees to achieve a final dough temp of 80-85
1/4t IDY
1.5 t Olive Oil
3/4 t salt

Let is cold rise for 42 hours before I removed it to warm before using it. Dough was very manageable and VERY tasty. You can see by the picture(front left chunk out) there was nice crum in the crust and had some great oven spring. Still need some work getting the dough opened and getting it into the oven, but things are coming along nicely. We are having a family mini-pizza party next weekend for Christmas and looking forward to sharing this great dough with everyone ! Again thanks so much for all the help. I hope eveyone has a MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!!!

MO