Author Topic: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens  (Read 17875 times)

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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2013, 03:46:09 PM »
Thank you Antoine.  Someday perhaps....

Nico, can we see some pictures of your pies from your new oven?

Chau


Offline landras

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2013, 04:12:03 PM »
Thank you Antoine.  Someday perhaps....

Nico, can we see some pictures of your pies from your new oven?

Chau

Hi Chau, still in Argentina, I will be back this weekend, will cook some next one and post some pictures.
nico

Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2013, 12:08:43 PM »
Antoine, it looks like you're mortaring the oven to the floor.  Are you sure you want to do that?

Hello Antoine,

When I did see the picture I had the same question as Scott123. Scott is referring to the second picture in your second post I think. What I make out of it is to see the oven floor and you spreading glue on the floor to hold the vault.

Usually, in static setups, I think the advice is always to not mortar (glue) the vault on the floor. Do you do that differently in mobile setups ? Or maybe FGM does that differently with all their setups ?

Also, I see you mentioning that you were busy building an oven on sunday which you wanted to use the next weekend. It turned out the even was canceled but how do you do that with drying / curing the oven ? I can imagine that the concrete is of course allready dried so it does not have to cure like it would if I would be building an oven with stones and mortar but I can imagine that at least the glue (mortar) for the seems need to carefully / slowly dry... I am very curious how you do that.

Same of course applies somewhat for the rendering on the outside but when using enough insulation I personally think the stucco on the outside will not have a problem with fiering up the oven but I am curious to your thoughts...

Thanks in advance !

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2013, 04:55:05 PM »
Hi Nachtwacht,

The dome of the oven is not glue to the floor. I only use a special refractory clay that will make a seal between the floor and dome but it is flexible and not bounding. Therefore the floor and dome can expend and retract independently.

On portable ovens, that it is a trailer or a mobile cart, the dome and floor a braced to the support to ensure everything remains into the proper position.

When I assemble the oven I place a heat lamp or small space heater to remove most of the moisture in the refractory concrete and bricks.
In the case of the trailer I had put together for an up-coming event, it was with an oven that had been used for the UL testing and NSF certification therefore it was already cured but not used for a year. Some moisture could have possibly get back in the materials.
With the experience, I can tell how much moisture is left in an oven just by watching how quickly it heats-up and how fast the dome turns white.
If it is slow to climb in temp there is still some moisture. If the oven quickly heats-up then most of the moisture is already gone and I just need to do a day or two of fire.
For that trailer oven, I just had to do a fire for a day before it was good to go.

If you are going to build your own oven, you will need to give it a lot of time so the concrete can dry to its optimal strength. Only after that you can start the curing process.
My recommendation is to cure the oven with the insulation on but before putting the stucco on. That way the oven will be more stable as far as temperature due to the insulation, yet the moisture will be able to freely escape.

For the stucco same thing. The scratch and brown stucco I use require 48h of slow drying to obtain the optimal strength. Then I put a base coat stucco that requires 24h and finely a top coat that requires another 24h.
I keep the heat lamp when applying the stucco but would not build a fire as it would speed up the drying and would result in some possible cracking down the road.

Let me know if you need further details.

Antoine
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Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2013, 01:44:15 PM »
Thanks Antoine for clarifying what you are doing. I am curious to the brand and specifications of the refractory clay you are using. I plan to do something similar here so it would make my search a lot easier :-) (thanks in advance !)

I was actually expecting that the refractory concrete of the ovens would be dry allready and would not need any curing and only the "glue" would need the curing. It will most likely differ for every manufacturer.... Better to be on the save side and you can never do to much curing I guess.

I am planning to build my own oven but not 100% sure yet if it will be build from scratch from bricks (I actually have all the materials allready to do that) or if it will be an FGM or another brand. At this moment I am leaning to wards an Pre made oven since I want to start a similar business as you are doing. (Me together with 2 friends, mostly geared to wards catering and doing that to sell oven installations) I have allready contacted FGM (and some other oven manufacturers since we have not decided yet with which brand to go) but they all have holidays at the moment. The whole of southern Europe is closed and people here are wondering why we are not getting out of the crisis :) When I finaly do get in touch with them we will decide on manufacturer and which type of ovens to finalyse our business plans.

Also thanks for the explanation on the stucco. Impressive to be doing 3 coats.... If we become colleagues I will probably bug you for those secrets as well :)

Thanks for all the details so far.

Greetings

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2013, 10:46:29 AM »
Hi Nacthwacht,

What? You want me to share my secrets!  :-X

Just kidding, I learned everything I know by asking others and some trial and error. Happy to share with anyone interested.

Any concrete or brick will tend retain moisture even if it is dry to the touch. As a matter of fact if you don't use your oven for a while it is recommended to do a day of curing to ensure you removed any moisture that may have developed back in.
As you said better be safe than sorry.

The refractory clay comes from Europe with the ovens but I am in the process of sourcing it locally. I certainly will let you know once I find what I am looking for.

FGM, as the most of the rest of Europe, is indeed on vacation, enjoying life  :)
Feel free to contact them but for any business in the US and Canada they will direct you back to me as I am there official importer.

I will be happy to work with you, that you decide to build your own or buy a precast oven. From materials to building technique, I will share what I know.
That said building your own is certainly a beautiful project but it is very unforgiving and mistakes are unfortunately very costly. Especially when it is mounted on a trailer with the vibrations and so on.

For the stucco I like to go the extra mile to prevent any issue. When you are at that step, you will have to give me your email so we can discuss all that.

Antoine


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Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2013, 12:58:58 PM »
Hi Antoine,

I think you missed the "Netherlands" in my signature. Netherlands as in Europe, I am roughly 400 miles away from FGM headquarters. I certainly hope they will not direct me to you for buying some ovens  ;)

Funny enough, there are allready Importers in The Netherlands for Panyol, Alpha, LineaVZ and many other manufacturers but not for FGM. They had not been on my radar also until I bumped into this forum (while doing research on Le Panyol) and everybody here raving FGM had me looking into them as well. For me they would be intresting since they are 400 miles away instead of 600 or 800 for Panyol and some Italian manufacturers. They will get back next Tuesday I think so hopefully I can get to make some decisions (still not decided on which manufacturer I like best) by then. I will let you know what it will turn out to be.

Since we are also talking about stucco now, I had the idea myself to use more than just 1 layer of chicken wire. Everybody always seems to just wrap the isolation with chicken wire and then apply stucco. I was wondering if doing something like, wire, stucco, wire, stucco and maybe even an extra layer of again wire and stucco would help against cracking. Sure, again extra work but I would never want any oven to crack on the outside so it might be worth it....

As for building it myself, at the moment I am considering building one that will be stationary in my own garden and making one that would be for "on the road" to do demo's and markets to sell the ovens. Since we have taken on the plan to try to do some selling of ovens, it would be normal for me to build one in my own garden and a trailer mounted oven which will be the same as that I will sell. (instead of building it from bricks which I am not planning to sell :) )

I will be sure to let you know how my plans unfold.

Greetings

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2013, 01:42:37 PM »
Beautiful oven Antoine.

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2013, 09:17:36 AM »
To MightyPizzaOven:  Thank you

To Nachtwacht,

Yes, indeed it is right there in your signature. Was trying to do too much at once and didn't pay attention  :-D

You should certainly contact FGM, you could even become their distributor. It is funny that Le Panyol is so well established everywhere. In France it is the inexpensive brand that you can find at most home improvement store and their reputation is so so.

For the stucco, I think you can do multiple layer of diamond mesh but it becomes harder to shape. The stucco should really be through and on top of the mesh, to make it stronger, rather than just above.
For the second layer I will send you the name of the type of base stucco and the specialty mesh I use. You actually put the base the stucco and the mesh is worked in the stucco just like you would do when working with fiber glass and resin. It makes a world of difference.

Also I will send you a PM with the name of the refractory clay manufacturer I found in Europe.

Antoine
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 09:19:59 AM by breadstoneovens »
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Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2013, 06:50:49 AM »
For the stucco, I think you can do multiple layer of diamond mesh but it becomes harder to shape. The stucco should really be through and on top of the mesh, to make it stronger, rather than just above.

Lets try to get my idea a little better across so I made some pictures.

The first attached picture of how people always seem to apply stucco. We have the insulation, we put mesh around it, and then apply stucco.

In the second picture which I have drawn you can see this as 1.

The "problem" I have with that (not really a problem, I just think it might be possible to do it better) is that the stucco is always at the top / above of the mesh. Like with pouring concrete, we do not want the concrete above the rebar, we want the rebar to be inside the concrete. Also, we prefer that the rebar is roughly a little lower than the middle of what we are pouring but not higher than the middle (if we would pour 4 inches of concrete, I would put my rebar roughly 1 inch high so 1 inch would be below the rebar and 3 inch would be above the rebar)

Using the mesh as we do in the attached picture, we are far from accomplishing that the mesh will be somewhat close to the middle.

My thoughts are.... if we use it for concrete, and that way we make the concrete stronger, would the same not apply for stucco ?

So with the drawing I made with 2, you see how I would think to accomplish this. Option 1, we could put the mesh on like normal, than apply a second layer and we use something that will keep the second layer of mesh away from the first layer. (using wire or something.....) Option 2 would be to nut put the first layer of mesh on as tightly as the first picture is showing but much more loosely. Then apply a second layer of mesh that would fit more snug around the first layer of mesh.

Third option, not pictured but that was what I was trying to explay before, make the mesh like in the picture, apply stucco, while it is still wet you put another layer of mesh and then more stucco.

All above ways try to get mesh more "in the middle" of the stucco and not below it....

Hope it makes sense. And maybe all that extra work just does not make seance because it is not needed or can be done more easy.... just some thoughts I am playing around with. Looking forward for the PM. Will make sure you get my contact details since who knows, we might become colleagues :)


Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2013, 11:13:11 AM »
I certainly understand what you are trying to do.

The first thing that I would recommend is to put aluminum foil above the ceramic fiber. This will help with the insulation, will ensure no water from the stucco gets in the insulation and will help with proper drying of the stucco as the insulation will not be sucking water out of it.

I think you are over thinking it for the mesh. When you apply the stucco about 1cm or 1/3" thick, the insulation will slightly compress under the weight of the stucco and your mesh is going to be about centered. That is for the scratch and brown stucco.
Then for the base stucco, you do work the mesh into it, so your mesh is about centered in the materials as well and that is your second layer of mesh and stucco.

Hope that makes sense.

Best regards,

antoine
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Offline nachtwacht

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2013, 11:20:48 AM »
Yes, definatly makes sence and then I am indeed overthinking it since what I try to accomplish is allready happening. Thanks for clearing that up, problem, wich was not a problem, solved  ;D

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2013, 12:07:17 PM »
Last night was National Night Out and we used the community trailer to do what it was designed for, support the community. The Mayor, Police and Fire Department of Sachse, TX loved the pizza  :chef:

Here are a few pics.
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Offline landras

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #63 on: October 02, 2013, 04:53:22 PM »
very nice Antoine, pizza looks super good man!

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2013, 02:21:32 PM »
Thanks. I made 6 oz dough balls then cut the pizza in 4 pieces. Easier to eat for everyone that way.
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Offline landras

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2013, 03:26:39 PM »
how many pizzas did you make?

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #66 on: October 03, 2013, 04:40:48 PM »
Right about 45 pizza.
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Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2013, 04:54:14 PM »
Great event on Saturday at the Sachse Fall Fest!
We cooked the caramelized onions and the bacon right in the oven before putting them on the pizza  :drool:
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Offline Ryan2014

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2013, 02:54:44 PM »
Last night was National Night Out and we used the community trailer to do what it was designed for, support the community. The Mayor, Police and Fire Department of Sachse, TX loved the pizza  :chef:

Here are a few pics.

So how much of that gear were you able to stow under the oven? Did you need a second vehicle?
The oven and trailer look great. Congrats!
How much are the trailers by themselves, and would you put your oven on someone elses trailer if they provided it?

thanks

Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2013, 07:08:52 PM »
So how much of that gear were you able to stow under the oven?
Hi there,

All the tables, tent, tools, drops jacks and wood fit under the oven. The only thing I put in the truck I use to pull it was the coolers for the food.

I did another event last Friday and one guy who happened to be a Chef at the local Cordon Bleu school watched me braking everything down at the end. Then he came to me with big eyes and say "wow that it pretty self contained".
He kept looking inside the trailer like if I had just fit 15 clowns in an Mini Cooper :-D

For the prices, I sent you a PM.

If someone already has a trailer, able to properly support the weight of the oven, yes, I would mount it on for them.
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Offline breadstoneovens

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2014, 10:34:38 PM »
Second generation of trailer is now operational  :)

The new trailers have a higher deck, with oven floor at 49", for a faster set-up. The crank-up jacks are now only used to level the trailer rather than raising it 10".

There is hot and cold water for a hand wash station and a 3 compartment sink. The opposite side of the sink is designed for the pizza prep area with a huge stainless counter top.

The space under the trailer is bigger than ever with 60 square feet of space and 27" of height. You can easily store wood, tables and even large cooler.

Antoine
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Online jeff v

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2014, 10:40:54 PM »
Very nice Antoine!
Back to being a civilian pizza maker only.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #72 on: January 08, 2014, 10:52:26 PM »
Yep, that's a beauty alright...put some bling wheels on that bad boy Antoine.  8)
   
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Offline derricktung

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #73 on: January 11, 2014, 07:37:46 AM »
Wow!  Your trailers are getting fancier, and definitely made to for market/cater use!  Nice thinking, Antoine!  and thanks for the continued support of our trailer!

Offline JConk007

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Re: Four Grand Mere mobile wood fired ovens
« Reply #74 on: January 11, 2014, 08:56:15 AM »
Very Nice !! I like the fact you raised the walls on the trailer as I am 6'2" and all the cranking makes me Cranky  ;) looks great! how is the balance of the  tongue weight now?
ciao !
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