Author Topic: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise  (Read 1025 times)

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Offline Bende

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Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« on: December 21, 2012, 09:53:19 PM »
Hi guys,

Would love some insight on the results/value of a bulk rise vs. a balled rise.  My usual approach is to let my dough rise as stipulated in the recipe, and then if I'm doing an extended rise in the fridge, I divide it and ball it up and put it into oiled up tuperware before transfering to the fridge. 

Any advice on when to move from bulk to balls for something like a 2-3 day rise in the fridge?  Why does it matter?  Does it matter?

Bonus question - how many ounces do you guys shot for for each ball for a 12" neapolitan pie?

Thanks,

Ben


Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 10:09:30 PM »
Both.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2012, 12:16:50 AM »
Hi guys,

Would love some insight on the results/value of a bulk rise vs. a balled rise.  My usual approach is to let my dough rise as stipulated in the recipe, and then if I'm doing an extended rise in the fridge, I divide it and ball it up and put it into oiled up tuperware before transfering to the fridge. 

Any advice on when to move from bulk to balls for something like a 2-3 day rise in the fridge?  Why does it matter?  Does it matter?

Bonus question - how many ounces do you guys shot for for each ball for a 12" neapolitan pie?

Thanks,

Ben

I don't subscribe to cold fermentation, so I can't comment on that. As for ball size, I typically use 255-265g for a 13" pie;  you could scale from there.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Bende

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2012, 12:52:39 AM »
Thanks, Craig.

Offline Bende

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2012, 05:20:43 AM »
Craig - I'd be interested to know if you have any insight on this for non-fridge/cold fermentation.

Thanks,

Ben

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2012, 09:11:12 AM »
Ben,

This is a subject that comes up quite often. See, for example, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20067.msg197025.html#msg197025, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12105.msg113730.html#msg113730, and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10142.msg88569.html#msg88569. I think the answer depends mostly on the type of pizza that is to be made, the nature of the fermentation (e.g, cold fermentation or room temperature/controlled temperature fermentation), and whether the dough is intended for a home environment versus a commercial one. Different factors come into play in both environments, as the above threads and the posts referenced therein will make clear.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2012, 09:49:58 AM »
Craig - I'd be interested to know if you have any insight on this for non-fridge/cold fermentation.

Thanks,

Ben

Ben,

There is no doubt that you can make a good pizza with cold fermentation. I just believe you can make a better pizza (both taste and texture) fermenting in the mid-60's. Other people here may or may not agree with this. I would encourage you to try both and see what works best for you.

Cold fermentation can be a valuable tool if you need to effect timing - quickly slow things down or hold dough for several days, for example.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2012, 11:36:55 AM »
For the record, I consider 60-70 degree to be "cold" fermentation.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2012, 12:07:46 PM »
For the record, I consider 60-70 degree to be "cold" fermentation.

For the record, I consider the refrigerator to be cold fermentation. Herein lies a source of much confusion around here. There are a lot of places where we use the same words to describe very different things.

I like to use refrigerator temps as line between cold fermentation and "room temperature" because below 40F, the activity of the flora slows to near zero. This is why refrigerators are set below 40F. The chart below if for a sourdough culture, but you get the idea.

When I discuss "room temperature," I'm generally talking about a range that covers the mid 60's to the upper 70's. When we discuss fermentation above the mid to upper 70's, I think generally it is in the context of some sort of warmed proofing environment. We really don't have any words that I can think of to describe fermentation between 40 and 60F, but then I don't know of anyone operating in the range either.

CL
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2012, 12:39:37 PM »
The words are there we just don't use them.  For refrigerated dough (>40) the proper term is "retarded". Above that it is "fermented".  Generally (to speak to the OP), I like to bulk rise (ferment) at room temp for as long as is possible while allowing me to manage the dough (generally a couple of hours on a busy day to 24 hours on a low key weekend), then ball the dough and cold rise (retard) it until use, which can be from a couple of hours out to a couple of weeks.   There is activity in the dough at sub 40 temps, but it is greatly reduced as Craig shows.


Offline Bende

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2012, 11:47:56 AM »
Awesome, thanks guys.  I definitely need to experiment with more of a fermentation period.   Think I've been too quick to throw the dough into the fridge assuming that 3 days in a cold fridge would be enough to to generate the flavor I'm looking for.

Ben

Offline Bende

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Re: Bulk Rise vs. Balled Rise
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 02:13:47 AM »
For what it's worth, and this may be obvious to most, but I really saw significant improvement in the flavor of my crust by extending my room temp fermentation instead of the "fermentation" in the fridge.  This is a pic of the Mozza dough recipe, with a bit of cheat by mixing all ingredients together as opposed to letting a sponge ferment for a while.

I let this ferment at around 70 degrees for about 30 hours at room temp, then 2 days in the fridge.  The flavor of the crust was much nicer than previous attempts when I threw this right into the fridge for 3 days once after following the recipe with a room temp rise of only 12 hours. 

And if your interested ... this is fresh mozz, san marzano tomato sauce with a pinch of salt and sugar simmered for a while to reduce water and thicken it up, then basil with about 1 minute left and parm reg after I pulled it out.  About 5 minutes at 550 on my baking steel.

Ben