Author Topic: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls  (Read 2791 times)

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Offline sub

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Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« on: December 29, 2012, 05:38:55 PM »
Hi,

I've got a problem,

When I open my dough balls I've got big air bubbles near the ledge and after the baking it's became big anesthetic charred black spot  :-\

what cause that, too much activity in the dough before balling ?

Thanks


the recipe:

SPADONI PZ3 (W 280-310)
62.5% cold Water
3% Salt
1g fresh yeast for 1 liter of water

21H rising in bulk and 8 hours in balls (at ambient temperature)

215g balls, cooking time 70 seconds in my  






« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 05:42:56 PM by sub »


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 07:12:44 PM »
I think your pizza looks great. The larger bubbles are normal, but your dough looks a little rough in the first balled picture. It could be more developed and balled a bit tighter, which would help reduce larger bubbles. The larger bubbles are due to areas of gluten that have broken down and the trapped air pools together.

John
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 06:43:30 AM by dellavecchia »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 09:15:32 PM »
I think your pie looks great. You might try cutting your bulk back some or slowing it down. I don't like to see too much gas in my dough when I ball. I like to see just little pin prick looking spots - the bubbles just starting to form - when I ball.

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 09:18:33 PM »
I agree with Craig,  too much bulk fermentation.  Once there is that much gas in the dough,  balls become harder to form....  IMO.  -Marc

Online shuboyje

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 10:09:07 PM »
I agree with everyone else your pies look great.

What size oven are you working in?  The first oven I built was 30".  This left the pizza very close to the fire and I had this issue a lot.  My new oven is 42" and the issue is gone.  It was actually a big factor in building the new oven.
-Jeff

Offline f.montoya

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 05:57:21 AM »


21H rising in bulk and 8 hours in balls (at ambient temperature)


I had the same problem and I pretty much solved it, I think, by proofing in bulk for 3 days and balling just an hour and a half to 2 hours before use. At 800f - 900f, with a dough like yours, you shouldn't have a problem with black balloons. I think the extra time in bulk allows for deflation while retaining structure, which is what you need since the gas expansion at WFO temps will puff up your edges all by itself.

In any case, your pies look awesome!!  :D

Offline f.montoya

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 06:15:20 AM »
I agree with everyone else your pies look great.

What size oven are you working in?  The first oven I built was 30".  This left the pizza very close to the fire and I had this issue a lot.  My new oven is 42" and the issue is gone.  It was actually a big factor in building the new oven.

Looks like he's using one of those 13'' waffle-style, electric ovens. And it looks like he's getting great results!

Offline sub

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 06:28:29 AM »
Thanks, everyone!

The larger bubbles are normal, but your dough looks a little rough in the first balled picture. It could be more developed and balled a bit tighter, which would help reduce larger bubbles. The larger bubbles are due to areas if gluten that have broken down and the trapped air pools together.

Maybe I should have given them a few more stretch and folds but I can't ball them tighter (I'll shape them like the mozzarella cheese)


You might try cutting your bulk back some or slowing it down. I don't like to see too much gas in my dough when I ball. I like to see just little pin prick looking spots - the bubbles just starting to form - when I ball.
CL

Yeah I'll do that next time, It's harder at ambient temperature than in the fridge I understand why you have made a proofing box, Your wonderfulls topics help me to understand a lot, thanks  ;)

What size oven are you working in?  The first oven I built was 30".

It's a small 12"  :P
With hard mod, it can easily reach 550C /1022F  



« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 08:37:25 AM by sub »

Offline csafranek

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 01:14:29 PM »
I personally think your pizza looks amazing! Can't wait to get my oven and get to produce some REAL pizza!

Offline onur

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2013, 06:24:09 AM »
Hi,

I've got a problem,

When I open my dough balls I've got big air bubbles near the ledge and after the baking it's became big anesthetic charred black spot  :-\

what cause that, too much activity in the dough before balling ?

Thanks


the recipe:

SPADONI PZ3 (W 280-310)
62.5% cold Water
3% Salt
1g fresh yeast for 1 liter of water

21H rising in bulk and 8 hours in balls (at ambient temperature)

215g balls, cooking time 70 seconds in my  







Hi, did you find a way around the bubbles?
I have the same problem, using almost the same recipe as yours except I bulk at ambient temp. for 2 hours, then ball like mozza cheese, keep in refrigerator for 48 hours. Followed by 2 hours at ambient temp. before baking. Would love to hear if you had any improvement.


Offline Giggliato

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 08:12:00 PM »
I'd like to try this oven and modification do you have some more info about it?

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 08:45:39 PM »
I agree with the others.  Going wih a significantly shorter bulk time will help get rid of most of the large bubbles.  I think what happens during a extended bulk fermentation is that the gluten strands are strengthened.  So when you ball the dough fairly late, it's common for those stronger gluten strands to trap air (bubbles).  These air pockets that are initially formed during the late balling can also get bigger as John mention during the later stages of fermentation when the gluten matrix starts to break down.  The thin walls around the air pockets can break down causing multiple air pockets to coalesce.

The 2nd way air can get trapped into dough is during the balling phase itself.  Depending on the technique you use to ball the dough, you can cause more or less air to be trapped.  I think for a NY style a lot of people like to see those larger air bubbles as oppose to the NP style where people don't seem to desire them.

However, going with a shorter bulk fermenation time will also yield noticeable differences in the final crumb textures.  So you will have to do some experimentation to see what you like best.  If it were me and I was happy with the current crumb texture, then I would keep it the same and just use a skewer and pop the big air bubbles before loading the pie.   :-D
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 08:47:30 PM by Jackie Tran »

Offline sub

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Re: Big air bubbles when I open my dough balls
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2013, 07:34:21 AM »
thanks for the explanations Jackie,

Hi, did you find a way around the bubbles?
I have the same problem, using almost the same recipe as yours except I bulk at ambient temp. for 2 hours, then ball like mozza cheese, keep in refrigerator for 48 hours. Followed by 2 hours at ambient temp. before baking. Would love to hear if you had any improvement.

No I haven't  done more pizza since then, I'll show you the results next time.

I'd like to try this oven and modification do you have some more info about it?

Where are you from Giggliato ?

Look here for some infos

If you are in America, You'll need a deni pizza bella oven  (or from others brands ) with round heating elements  and a spare one from a service center or taken from another oven buy on fleabay.

The thermostat is removed and the oven is insulated with ceramic fiber and Aluminium Foil Pie.

« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 07:38:27 AM by sub »


 

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