Author Topic: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway  (Read 42226 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2013, 09:29:17 AM »
Where are those pictures from, please?

Tom,

I also saw those same pictures on facebook, but canít recall where I saw them.  I donít want to derail this thread, but if you want me to look for them I will.  I think Raffaele Vassallo pictures are interesting if you have facebook.  https://www.facebook.com/raffaele.vassallo.9/photos_stream

Norma 
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Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2013, 09:50:25 AM »
No problem intereseting by the way I havent seen them. Thanks

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2013, 02:30:38 PM »
Faglia,

I am also researching allot about Neapolitan oven's, i have some interesting pictures, but i think the isolation is done in some type of porous brick like this picture.
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Online Tscarborough

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2013, 03:31:15 PM »
It is most likely chunks of tufa.  Going by TxCraigs, it is a minimal insulator.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2013, 05:40:58 PM »
Tom

Did you confirm that Craigs oven was insulated with tufa?  Mario Acunto has changed the gallery on their website but at one point showed the ovens being insulated with a  cast product of some sort that looked similar to perlcrete.  I thought maybe it was a concrete with a tufa aggregate..

-Jeff

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2013, 06:03:24 PM »
No, but every picture I have seen that is what it looks like.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2013, 07:14:22 PM »
I wish those pictures were still there.  It basically looked like they built the ovens basic form out of the large mesh first, then put the insulation on as a castable or maybe even gunnable.  Definitely not slabs of Tufa hacked to shape like the other Neapolitan builders I've seen.
-Jeff

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2013, 07:33:29 PM »
I could see where they would use a castable with tufa as aggregate.  Regardless, it is still not a very good insulator, I would consider it to be mass, not insulation.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2013, 07:48:43 PM »
It's a cement-clay mixture.
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Offline shuboyje

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2013, 07:50:11 PM »
I could see where they would use a castable with tufa as aggregate.  Regardless, it is still not a very good insulator, I would consider it to be mass, not insulation.

Yup, that's been my feeling for a while now.  As I have explained before, it even explains how the Neapolitan vent would cut fuel consumption.
-Jeff

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2013, 07:50:52 PM »
It's a cement-clay mixture.

I love when people remind me I'm not crazy.  Thanks Craig!

So it's probably an expanded clay like they use in hydroponics:
http://www.hydroponics-simplified.com/leca.html
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 07:52:27 PM by shuboyje »
-Jeff

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2013, 07:51:41 PM »
The shell of the structure is steel.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 07:57:50 PM by TXCraig1 »
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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2013, 07:59:51 PM »
And in lightweight concrete, that is what is used for modern CMU, not "cinder", but it is still very dense compared to perlcrete.

Offline BrickStoneOven

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2013, 08:13:46 AM »
Where are those pictures from, please?
There were a lot of pictures in this article but I guess they took most of them down. It was of his factory and had a lot of pictures of ovens being built. Maybe he didn't want other people knowing how they were built. http://www.dissapore.com/cucina/stefano-ferrara-si-fa-presto-a-dire-forno/

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2013, 08:59:44 AM »
this guys have allot of photos...

https://www.facebook.com/mgforni

https://www.facebook.com/MvNapoliForni2

they where the same company before, now they have split....
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2013, 02:59:15 PM »
Andre ,
Any chance you could shed done light on who's who in the zoo? Between MG and MV. Have you spoken with or corresponded with either if them do just pictures?  I am very confused as to who's what ettore , rafaelle , so many names and so much broken English when I communicate with them via email? They are  2 completely separate companies correct?
Either way those ovens are quite sweet ! As well as this build
Thanks for keeping us in the loop
What's the ETP
Estimated time til pizza!?
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Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2013, 03:27:45 PM »
John,

I will find out, because at first there was 2 raffaele, one was a guy that worked with Stefano Ferrara his name is Raffaele Vasallo, and the other is a Raffaele that deals the ovens, now they are MG forni, i have no idea who is MV forni, next time his is on line on FB ill ask him...

Now about the EPT... this week is carnaval here in Brazil, so ill have 4 days (Saturday till Tuesday) and for sure will make some pizza.... Just got a case (6 large cans) of Ciao Pomodoro.
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2013, 06:07:11 PM »
I will find out, because at first there was 2 raffaele, one was a guy that worked with Stefano Ferrara his name is Raffaele Vasallo, and the other is a Raffaele that deals the ovens, now they are MG forni, i have no idea who is MV forni, next time his is on line on FB ill ask him...

(Information from Matthew)

Raffaele Vasallo is the "V" in MV Forni. He worked for Stefano Ferrara's father for many years. After Stefano's father passed away he ventured out on his own. His partner is Rafaelle Mele (the "M").

John

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2013, 04:48:53 AM »
Well, i know now that Raffaele Mele is MG forni, i just went over my FB chat History and Raffaele Mele has signed a message from MG forni. Maybe he split with Vasallo??
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Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2013, 04:54:11 AM »
Interestings discussions only too bad nobody comments my who build and if iam making any mistakes with it :-D

Anyways Leca stones is like jeff said exapanded clay. Its used a lot in Sweden and Europe as a substitut for lightweight concrete.
I would for example have used leca concrete blocks if i would have build a stand in concrete for my wfo. I dont exactly know
about the isolations values I only know its not that good, more or less the same as lightweight concrete i think.

Tom said neapolitan more use our insulation as extra mass instead off insulation. This gets me thinking that i might have too little mass in my own
oven if it would be a commercial one. I have 2,6inch floor and 4.5 in walls?

If building an commercial oven what mass should you then have?

Online Tscarborough

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2013, 07:57:35 AM »
Just because it is for commercial use does not mean than it should not be insulated, it should, technically be much heavier insulated* than  one for episodic use.  It should or can have more mass, 4-6" would maintain  recovery for the walls, 2-4 for the floor.



* To reduce heat in the working environment and to maintain temps when not in use to reduce startup time.

Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 09:02:01 AM »
Ok thanks.
My oven is then in the lower margin. It will be interesting to see the result when baking lets say 40 pizzas in a row for a party..
Iam also exited to see in what ratio the pizza will be ready bottom compared to top..
How much i will have to dome it etc.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2013, 09:30:50 AM »
Have you decided on a dome height?  That will play a huge factor in the need to dome pizzas.  In my opinion if the oven is in balance you never need to dome a pizza.
-Jeff

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2013, 11:18:22 AM »
Got the info.

MG forni is Raffaele Mele
MV forni is Raffaele Vasallo

they are not together any more.
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Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2013, 12:24:40 PM »
I intend to use pizzanapoletanas guidelines of domehight diameter/3.4.
I was just confused about his comments on soldier hight 22 cm which means net hight of 18 to 19 cm. So i made the soldiers 20.5  :D
Any comments on this to get the right ratio for neapolitan pizza. I am not interested to cock anything else than this really.