Author Topic: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway  (Read 27742 times)

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Offline JConk007

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2013, 02:59:15 PM »
Andre ,
Any chance you could shed done light on who's who in the zoo? Between MG and MV. Have you spoken with or corresponded with either if them do just pictures?  I am very confused as to who's what ettore , rafaelle , so many names and so much broken English when I communicate with them via email? They are  2 completely separate companies correct?
Either way those ovens are quite sweet ! As well as this build
Thanks for keeping us in the loop
What's the ETP
Estimated time til pizza!?
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Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2013, 03:27:45 PM »
John,

I will find out, because at first there was 2 raffaele, one was a guy that worked with Stefano Ferrara his name is Raffaele Vasallo, and the other is a Raffaele that deals the ovens, now they are MG forni, i have no idea who is MV forni, next time his is on line on FB ill ask him...

Now about the EPT... this week is carnaval here in Brazil, so ill have 4 days (Saturday till Tuesday) and for sure will make some pizza.... Just got a case (6 large cans) of Ciao Pomodoro.
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2013, 06:07:11 PM »
I will find out, because at first there was 2 raffaele, one was a guy that worked with Stefano Ferrara his name is Raffaele Vasallo, and the other is a Raffaele that deals the ovens, now they are MG forni, i have no idea who is MV forni, next time his is on line on FB ill ask him...

(Information from Matthew)

Raffaele Vasallo is the "V" in MV Forni. He worked for Stefano Ferrara's father for many years. After Stefano's father passed away he ventured out on his own. His partner is Rafaelle Mele (the "M").

John

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2013, 04:48:53 AM »
Well, i know now that Raffaele Mele is MG forni, i just went over my FB chat History and Raffaele Mele has signed a message from MG forni. Maybe he split with Vasallo??
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2013, 04:54:11 AM »
Interestings discussions only too bad nobody comments my who build and if iam making any mistakes with it :-D

Anyways Leca stones is like jeff said exapanded clay. Its used a lot in Sweden and Europe as a substitut for lightweight concrete.
I would for example have used leca concrete blocks if i would have build a stand in concrete for my wfo. I dont exactly know
about the isolations values I only know its not that good, more or less the same as lightweight concrete i think.

Tom said neapolitan more use our insulation as extra mass instead off insulation. This gets me thinking that i might have too little mass in my own
oven if it would be a commercial one. I have 2,6inch floor and 4.5 in walls?

If building an commercial oven what mass should you then have?

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2013, 07:57:35 AM »
Just because it is for commercial use does not mean than it should not be insulated, it should, technically be much heavier insulated* than  one for episodic use.  It should or can have more mass, 4-6" would maintain  recovery for the walls, 2-4 for the floor.



* To reduce heat in the working environment and to maintain temps when not in use to reduce startup time.

Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 09:02:01 AM »
Ok thanks.
My oven is then in the lower margin. It will be interesting to see the result when baking lets say 40 pizzas in a row for a party..
Iam also exited to see in what ratio the pizza will be ready bottom compared to top..
How much i will have to dome it etc.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2013, 09:30:50 AM »
Have you decided on a dome height?  That will play a huge factor in the need to dome pizzas.  In my opinion if the oven is in balance you never need to dome a pizza.
-Jeff

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2013, 11:18:22 AM »
Got the info.

MG forni is Raffaele Mele
MV forni is Raffaele Vasallo

they are not together any more.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2013, 12:24:40 PM »
I intend to use pizzanapoletanas guidelines of domehight diameter/3.4.
I was just confused about his comments on soldier hight 22 cm which means net hight of 18 to 19 cm. So i made the soldiers 20.5  :D
Any comments on this to get the right ratio for neapolitan pizza. I am not interested to cock anything else than this really.


Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2013, 12:28:21 PM »
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1118.0.html

There is the link to what i refer to. I guess most people here have read it already...

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2013, 12:45:05 PM »
Faglia, Just go 2cm higher with the dome, this is not going to make any difference.... none of the neapolitan ovens have exactly the same hight, all of them are made by an artisan, and 2cm of difference is not an imperfection...
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2013, 07:20:49 PM »
Got the info.

MG forni is Raffaele Mele
MV forni is Raffaele Vasallo

they are not together any more.

Sorry for the off topic: Andre - was this recent? I got a quote from Mele a few months ago under MV Forni.

John

Offline andreguidon

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2013, 05:33:58 AM »
John this is recent... i have no idea what happened....

the email on MV forni is Vasallo's email, and the contact on MG forni is Mele's.
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." Leonardo da Vinci

Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2013, 08:04:13 AM »
No worries John, This is a interest of mine to so.

Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2013, 10:15:37 AM »
Ok,
The oven is now ready for the sand form. Tried to get sand from the beach haha but it was like ice and rock hard.
Ill guess i have to buy some then..

Instead of creating a angeled ring with fire brick over the oven opening i got lazy and just mixed upp vermiculite and some lime, portland cement and clay. Think ratio was 4:1:0,5:0,5 or something like that. I thought i was smart here but after some thinking i thought this might be a problem due to forces in the oven and also the heat. Would not be grat if there got to be a crack in the vermiculite mix which would maby cause some problems. In any case i will have steel harness around the whole angled firebrick course something like stovemasters that you can see in next reply.

Does anyone have an opinion then please tell me.

Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2013, 10:16:48 AM »

Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2013, 10:17:44 AM »

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2013, 12:57:50 PM »
I think what you did over the arch is fine, all it needs to do the way you built it is take the load of the dome and transfer it to the steel via compression.  It should do that fine.  

I notice you did not stagger the joints on your upper soldier, make sure you stagger them in the dome.  

What sort of dome profile are you using?  The angle on top of your soldier looks a little steep and has me wondering if you are going to follow Marco's advice there too and have it flatter in the middle?

BTW, looks awesome!
-Jeff

Offline fagilia

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Re: Finally a Swedish neapolitan WFO underway
« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2013, 04:07:26 PM »
Please Jeff can you explain what you mean exactly with stagger the upper soldiers? Sorry but i did not understand this.
When i came up with the angle on the soldiers i used the forno bravo plan for a low dome and transfered it to a build with even lower dome.
The angle is steeper in the start like you said and a more flatter roof in the middle. But to me it sounds crazy to have a flat roof. Will it really hold up when some force is placed on top?

I actually dont know if it is even possible to do like marcos picture and also how nesessary it is for a good pizza reslult it is? Anyone have an idea?

Therefore i made the angle to fit a flatter roof but if i decide to use a more even angle across the roof i can always fill the bigger gap with mortar in the first course of the dome.

In the picture one can see that i mortared the vermicultie in same radius as the rest of the angled soldiers. Therefore i can use a perfectly round harness around the soldiers.