A disturbing pattern I'm starting to notice.

[Qarl]

Having been a member of over a dozen forums larger than this and running several myself, I find posts like this to serve no good for the board.   As you can see its already turned into a snark-fest.

Having noobs and crotchety Old members that are tired of seeing these old questions (and give snippy answers)  is just the nature of an Internet forum.  Just deal with it, ignore it, or move on!

[Chicago Bob]

Having been a member of over a dozen forums larger than this and running several myself, I find posts like this to serve no good for the board.   As you can see its already turned into a snark-fest.

Having noobs and crotchety Old members that are tired of seeing these old questions (and give snippy answers)  is just the nature of an Internet forum.  Just deal with it, ignore it, or move on!

Qarl,
Please tell me if that is not exactly what I said in the first place?

[scott123]

FWIW it's in my profile and I've stated it several times in posts.

You're going to talk about your 'real name?' Is this a joke?  How many simultaneous accounts have you had here? How many aliases have you hid behind?

[Ev]

I've been active on lots of different forums for a long time now revolving around my many and varied hobbies.  While some of them have been friendly and civil communities, others(most) have been like a daily war fought between rival factions.  When I first got involved here, and at other pizza related sites like forno bravo, I noticed how friendly they were.  People gave advice when they had some to give, and took advice when they needed a hand.  Lately that seems to be changing.  Both here and at Forno Bravo it seems like it is almost daily that a new member comes with questions and then does not like the answers given by more experienced members and begins arguing with them.  It's something that I have seen many times on lots of other forums, but never on these pizza specific ones.  It's especially disturbing to me because in the past I have seen this exact type of behavior turn a forum into a warzone.  What gives and what can be done to help ease the problem? 

What do you mean, Jeff? I've never seen any of that here. Folks here are way to mature for that. You must mean some other pizza making forum.

[Tscarborough]

It is not the anonymity, it happens to me at least once a week at work, usually more.  A homeowner will call or come in and want advice on something like how to repair the unrepairable or how to half-ass fix something, or is trying to reinvent the wheel on something very simple and tried and true.  As soon as they argue against the solicited advice, I consider the conversation over and simply ask how ELSE may I help them.

[Pete-zza]

It is not the anonymity, it happens to me at least once a week at work, usually more.  A homeowner will call or come in and want advice on something like how to repair the unrepairable or how to half-ass fix something, or is trying to reinvent the wheel on something very simple and tried and true.  As soon as they argue against the solicited advice, I consider the conversation over and simply ask how ELSE may I help them.

Tom,

That is what I would call cognitive dissonance, and cognitive dissonance can occur both in the real world and in the Internet world. I have a brother who will often ask me my opinion on some matter. Usually I will already know his position on the matter based on conversations we may have had. If I agree with that position, he takes that as confirmation of his own position and he goes merrily on his way and actually takes action based on that position. If I take a contrary position, he will usually ignore it because it does not confirm his own position. There is no way to prove a negative on the matter of anonymity, so it can't be ruled out. However, I think it is safe to say that people can be jerks both in the real world and in the Internet world. And maybe the Internet world mirrors the real world.

Peter

[Tscarborough]

I would say that anonymity exacerbates it, it is just not a requirement.  At any rate, the only effective strategy I have found is, as I said, consider the conversation over when it happens.

My signature on a DIY construction board is:  "Advice is free, lessons start at 75 bucks an hour".  I am happy to give advice, but I am not going to debate it or even explain it in most cases, either take it or don't.

[slybarman]

FWIW, and it may seem hard to believe, but this forum is actually infinitely more civilized than many other I have belonged to.

[corkd]

Having followed this forum for almost 8 years, I have always been impressed with the general level of civility, but I understand Jeff's concern as well.

I do not have time to follow that many, other than my own industry specific sites, so I can't comment on other forums.
I think our moderators do an excellent job, and are themselves models of articulate, civil communication.

My wife, a psychologist & therapist, would agree with Peter's comment, offering that these kinds forums can create a sense of intimacy that doesn't really exist, making it easier for someone to "go off" on another in a way they might not in person, given the relative safety of the environment.
She lost me when she went into those who through the internet find convenient ways to "discharge their psychopathologies...."

Myself,  I prefer hand kneading.

~clay

[Chicago Bob]

FWIW, and it may seem hard to believe, but this forum is actually infinitely more civilized than many other I have belonged to.

Oh you got dat rite bruddah!
On some other placed I visit I've seen ordinary jerks grow chest hair when handed a keyboard.  

I like what Tom says...."I would say that anonymity exacerbates it, it is just not a requirement."

[mkevenson]

Happy New Year, pizza makers!

Been almost a year here and log on several times a day. I both read new posts and a lot of old stuff, I am eager to learn.
When I read Jeff's opening post to this thread my 1st reaction was, "show me the meat". I guess I have been in the dark too much of the time cause I have not seen these "objectionable posts". I hope that those who post objectionable posts in the future would clearly label them as such in the title so that I might not miss them.

Mark

[Chicago Bob]

Mark,
Congrats on your near one year mark sans controversy!
Don't worry...I let ya know when something pops up. 
Your Pal,
Bob

[oratio]

@Mark

The OP is most likely referring to this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22610.0.html and mine and Craig's mutual misunderstanding. Not much meat. These things happen when one is reading comments a little too fast, which happens to both old and new members alike.

 - Mike

[Jackitup]

On a lighter note, the SyFy channel has the Twilight Zone Marathon all day!! Good old fashioned TV, always loved the Twilight Zone, great stuff

jon langenfeld in hastings mn

[steelplayer]

It's a cookbook!

[Chicago Bob]

Awesome jon langenfeld! I just hooked up a new 3-D blu ray and it connects to the internet(has some free channels on there so I'm going to see if it has the SyFy channel. Love that twilight zone...thanks. 

[shuboyje]

Just for clarity that thread was not the genesis for my comment, and really doesn't fit the mold of what I'm seeing.  What I'm seeing if people coming for advice, but seemingly have pre-concieved the answer they were going to get.  When the answer they get is not what they had though it would be, they go ahead with the original plan anyway and argue any logic or guidance otherwise.

@Mark

The OP is most likely referring to this thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22610.0.html and mine and Craig's mutual misunderstanding. Not much meat. These things happen when one is reading comments a little too fast, which happens to both old and new members alike.

 - Mike

[RobynB]

Jeff,

I've noticed that too, especially in the last year or so.  I've noticed it especially in the ovens sections, and it is not limited to posting; I've had a number of people contact me directly with questions about my oven or FGM ovens in general, and one in particular displayed just the behavior you describe.  I've learned to limit the effort I put out in answering until I see how receptive, or at least polite, the person is going to be.  And I don't post as much as I used to, partly because of that.  But no forum is perfect, and this one is still remarkably civil most of the time.   

[SquirrelFlight]

Wow... I've been off the forum for a few months.... apparently I missed something?

One thing I've noticed is that, in addition to the anonymity factor, spoken english just doesn't translate well into written english.  What I mean by that is that if you write the way you speak, the message has a tendency to get garbled.  So many verbal nuances just get lost.... and it isn't an easy thing to correct.  At least not for me.  What I want to say is what I want to say, right?  I've found that there is a tendency for readers to put a tone or emphasis on a written statement (and I've done so myself) that was entirely unintended by the writer.

Anyway, I'm neither a linguist or a psychologist, but that's my $0.02.

[Jet_deck]

I am just happy to not be invlolved in a 'hot topic'---- for once.  LOL.
You people all go get a room and chill, just kidding.  Pizza rules.