Author Topic: RParker's Sourdough Experiments  (Read 959 times)

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Offline rparker

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2015, 12:17:02 PM »
Not quite sure what this means..Do you mean the dough formula, or the shaping of the rim? Or maybe I'm missing the point because I'm still wearing my pizza dough dunce cap from the reballers thread. :)
Sorry about that. One thing I am clear on is that I lack clarity.  :-[

Essentially, I would like to get my rims to come out as well shaped as they do when I do a glutenboy formulation.
Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline rparker

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2015, 12:26:53 AM »
My Ischia starter cleaned up nicely and went nuts after the second feeding. Doubled at some point in 6 hours. Another feeding with extr needed for my mix today. It snagged it after 3 hours, and the rest more than doubled a couple hours after that. All looks and smells good. Hopefully the mix comes out. It's hanging out in the dining room at 68 degrees.

Today's mix had 2.25% salt in it.

Now the really fun stuff. Praise. My retirement "gift" pie received great reviews and appreciation. My wife told me that the lady did lots of raving about how sweet and rich the crust tasted. Also about how well the super not-so-secret cheddar cheese worked with the mozzarella. My wife has brought her in leftovers before, but never one of the SDs as that was only my 4th mix (IIRC).

Well, unless my batch goes nuts, tomorrow is first bake with the Ischia fro sourdo. I went 10% starter all counter-rise. Bulk for 16 hours and balled for 5. Never tried that much warm bulk ferment.  I think these formulas really like the 565F launch in the Black Stone, so will got for that tomorrow.
Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline rparker

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2015, 01:41:20 PM »
I did a lunch bake today. I did a couple of things differently with my Black Stone heating protocol for my NY (ish) style bakes. Basically doing a lower heat bake. The heating regimen paid off. The Ischia paid off. So to did the salt increase to 2.25% and the 10% starter for 21 hours of warm ferment. So too did using Pam as a dough ball container release agent.

This is the new bench mark for me as far as fermentation and oven spring. The second bake is Saturday. I'll be quite curious to see if it comes out anywhere near as good.

The taste was not as sweet as my home made starter, though. There was an intensity to the flavor in the home starter that I didn't get with this one. Well, yet, I suppose. Perhaps a couple of days in the fridge will help? Perhaps I'll lose oven performance, but gain taste? TBD.

No bitter taste. I wonder if I took the starter too soon? I dunno. I'm really nit picking this one.

Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline rparker

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2015, 03:05:05 PM »
I did the second ball from the Ischia Island bake today. I baked it in a similar method, but there were two key differences. Today's ball weighed 30g less than the bake two days ago. I let it cook for a minute longer. Other differences include using some sliced cheese directly on the dough this time and using a bit extra cheddar on top. A little bit fuller of a sprinkle.

So, how did the second ball fare after 2 days in the fridge? It had mixed results. Both were great pies.

The Rise: 49 hours of 'fridge did not hurt the rise. it shot up the last couple of hours. Compare pics. Looks pretty close to me. I'd say even, but something was different today. It didn't have quite the same bulk just sitting there. Slight advantage warm-rise. Very small. 

The Stretch: I left something in my way during the stretch and had to pick up and set down the skin one additional time. Elasticity was great. The 2.25% salt and some extra kneading in the KA-600 both had huge benefits. Even score.

The Bake: The first ball had much better oven spring around the edges. It was actually impressive, but went a bit beyond what I typically like.  Today's was smaller, but still good. More normal than anything. there was just no way it was gonna match 2 day's ago. Sure enough, it didn't. The taper zones were closer to equal, but I remember there being a little more body. I wish they were the same size balls. The support strength was similar, both being good. Advantage goes to warm rise. It was a massive ring.

The Taste: The first ball was kind of on the bland compared to my home-grown starter. No where near as bland when comparing it to a 2-3 day rise using IDY. We gots new standards. I expected today's to be acidic. I mean, it's got the wrong sugar development for the job, right? I opened the lid bright and early this morning and even thought I smelled some acidity smells. the were not there at 11:00. Anyhow, on the flavor. The opposite happened, which I do not get. This had some of that rich, sweet quality I like so much with my home-grown. Just less of it, and maybe a bit less sweet. If the home-grown was too strong, this one would be better. It did indeed have more flavor than the other day, though, so advantage goes to 2-day fridge bake. 

Crunch: I do not remember the other day. It'd be erroneous to suggest one was better than the other without remembering. Today's did have the normal mixed bag from outside to center, but nothing great anywhere. <sigh!>

A couple factors for each way were in the great category, but none of them were in the bad category. I keep on being surprised about the taste.

The Camaldoli is up next week. I've read many say it's sweeter than Ischia. I can't wait.  :drool:

In the first pic, look at the bit of oil on the right side of the container. I did a brief squirt of Pam as the release agent. Not sure if this is Pam or some SD byproduct. 3 second drops are fantastic! 




 

Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline Donjo911

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2015, 12:29:34 PM »
That is some very good looking pizza, I'd say!! Great work!
Best regards,
Don
I have done wrong.. but what I did, I thought needed to be done.

Offline rparker

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2015, 01:59:17 PM »
Thanks, Don!  :D
Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline rparker

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2015, 02:55:06 PM »
I think I waited too long to take the Camadoli out after the feeding. There was a little bit of the bitter after taste at the back of the mouth. I took it out after 8 hours instead of around 3 like the others. The delay was because it wasn't growing as fast as the others. I should have done another feeding and waited to mix. No acidic smell or hooch so no real reason to not bake other than a clock.

The good flavor was there for a while. It was prominent until the after-taste took over. I may scrap the second ball and do another mix tomorrow, but with a shorter time-span to get the starter out after feeding. I've got a lot of high hopes for this one. I think it may come out just as tasty as the home grown. I certainly got a big hint of it today.

The performance was just as good as the Ischia, too. I adjusted down the outer-rim size just in case it was. It worked out. nice spring all the way around.

Same formulation except adjusted starter down to accommodate time and temperature. 7.5%. The ferment temps were 70 thru 72. 12-1/2 hours in bulk, 4-1/2 hours balled.

I am digging the SD thing in a big way.  :D   

Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline rparker

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2015, 01:02:27 PM »
I had no legitimate reason to do so, but I washed the Camalodi. No hooch, no abnormal odors (relative to SD, that is)  Just the acidic after-taste. I baked a 7.5% starter, 74F and 14 hour counter rise. Much yum yum. It hit that perfect spot we like. It's right before getting the back of mouth after taste, I think.

Mixed results for All Trumps in the SD world for me so far. just this one bake, but it was quite elastic. It kept shrinking on my board. Stretch and chew were fine. Kind of an odd combo. I had not been having troubles until now, though.

Like with the Ischia, this thing went nuts after the wash.

Next up is a two-day fridge version of the Camalodi. That will be followed up with another batch of the Home Grown. I'll apply what I've learned with the mix/ferment protocols of the last few batches of the commercial starts to a home-grown batch to see if it's performance is better than it was. As it stands, the home-grown is last in performance, but first in flavor. We'll see. Also going to mix up a low starter % to see how a longer warm ferment does. 
Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline rparker

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2015, 11:10:55 PM »
The second ball from the Camadoli batch that was too acidic got baked up as a round pizza-dough-loaf this afternoon.

As you can see, there's really not a whole lot to the spring in this form. I've not done enough of these to know if this one is good or bad. Most of the acidic taste was gone. All of it after a while.

I didn't take a shot underneath the container, but it was pretty much in line with what I had been getting.

I do see now in the picture that the top part got a little more airy than the bottom part. I don't know if this means anything or not.

The pizza test comes out this weekend. I'll let someone else weigh in on whether or not this looks like good performance compared to what a fresh ball would have done. 

Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.

Offline rparker

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Re: RParker's Sourdough Experiments
« Reply #29 on: Today at 02:00:16 PM »
I am digging the cooler technique for RT fermentation. It spent 44 hours using combinations of temps to end up perfectly mature at bake time. fwiw, this sort of summarizes the temps and times.

73F - 4 hours
68F - 4 hours
63F - 12 hours
60F - 3 hours
59F - 16 hours
55F - 6 hours

The cool thing was discovering I had gone lower temps than I wanted to go, but still having enough time to recover and throw in a couple extra hours of 73F at the end to make up the difference. (part of the 4 hours total above). It was my first time using the cooler and ice bottles method, and it's still not quite Summer-time temps here. The garage will be much hotter in a month, which hopefully will not be too hot for the bottles to keep up with.   

I did create a new spreadsheet using the basic concept of the one in the predictive model thread. More manual entry at this point. I enter the degrees, the amount of hours it would take to get to maturity if all the time was spent at that temperate and then the actual time spent. The simple math for it is:

TM = Total Maturity (in hours)
RH = Real hours spent at that temperature
PC = percent complete

PC = RH / TM

then I just summed the percentages done and managed the later time/temp combinations based on needs instead of having it manage me. I did a theoretical branching thing In my spreadsheet just by copy and pasting at the point the second one went into the fridge. Both rows are entered in parallel from that point on. One is obviously done already while the other is a tomorrow bake. I'll know to take it out of the fridge at specific time. that chart is pretty cool, even with the lower temps not being guaranteed. You still gotta look at the dough and adjust no matter what temps, though I'm seeing dead-on accuracy so far in the preferred temp regions.  8)  :D
Maybe they should just make white T-shirts with pizza juice stains already on them.