Author Topic: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model  (Read 28776 times)

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Offline communist

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #120 on: November 06, 2013, 10:42:01 AM »
5% Ischia 60 degrees.  Baking after work at 6PM.  Pics at 36 & 39 hours


Offline communist

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #121 on: November 06, 2013, 09:37:22 PM »
Ischia at 45 hours not active enough, set at 70 for two hours pics shows ok activity but needed dinner. Baked crust very tender, but not enough oven spring - will try again soon

Offline JD

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #122 on: November 06, 2013, 09:43:56 PM »
Ischia at 45 hours not active enough, set at 70 for two hours pics shows ok activity but needed dinner. Baked crust very tender, but not enough oven spring - will try again soon

Do you know why you were lacking activity?
Josh

Offline communist

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #123 on: November 07, 2013, 06:59:13 AM »
Do you know why you were lacking activity?
I can only guess that Ischia at 60 degrees is sluggish, or when I added it to my dough on initial mixing it was not active enough - I took it from the fridge & fed it and after 90 minutes it had risen about an inch.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #124 on: November 07, 2013, 08:52:07 AM »
The chart calls for 49 hours. Another 2 hours at 70, and you might have been pretty close to ideal and right at 49 hours. This why I always say to start watching it at least 8 hours before you need the dough so you can adjust the temperature up or down in those last 8 hours to have it right where you want it, when you want it.
Pizza is not bread.

Online mitchjg

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #125 on: November 07, 2013, 09:19:48 AM »
Ischia at 45 hours not active enough, set at 70 for two hours pics shows ok activity but needed dinner. Baked crust very tender, but not enough oven spring - will try again soon

I am wondering if I may be systematically under fermenting a bit.  This dough looks pretty close (to me) to the picture of a dough "about ready" and not as developed as the "the most rise I want."  I usually bake when it looks "about ready."  Should I be rising more (as in "the most rise" or almost there)?

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20477.msg202048.html#msg202048

thanks,
Mitch

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #126 on: November 07, 2013, 09:28:54 AM »
I am wondering if I may be systematically under fermenting a bit.  This dough looks pretty close (to me) to the picture of a dough "about ready" and not as developed as the "the most rise I want."  I usually bake when it looks "about ready."  Should I be rising more (as in "the most rise" or almost there)?

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,20477.msg202048.html#msg202048

thanks,
Mitch

I think it's personal preference. I've had some great pies that are way more risen than what I do. I almost never let my do go to "the most rise I want." I'm generally about in the middle between them.
Pizza is not bread.

Online mitchjg

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #127 on: November 07, 2013, 09:32:56 AM »
Thanks Craig, that helps.  I will push things a bit further next time I bake and check it out. - M

Offline communist

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #128 on: November 07, 2013, 10:14:43 AM »
The chart calls for 49 hours. Another 2 hours at 70, and you might have been pretty close to ideal and right at 49 hours. This why I always say to start watching it at least 8 hours before you need the dough so you can adjust the temperature up or down in those last 8 hours to have it right where you want it, when you want it.
Good point.  Unfortunately I was at work and was unable to watch the dough as closely as I would have liked.   Mark

Offline Antonella

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #129 on: December 02, 2013, 03:56:59 PM »
Hi craig,

am pretty new here at this Forum ...

easy and simple question for you :)

The calculated predicted starter in % you have to take off the amount of flour or water you use ?

e.g. you come up with 10% required for your selected time/temperature based on 1 kg of flour... you need 100gr of starter, right ?

In advance, thanks craig for the beginner answer :)



Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #130 on: December 02, 2013, 04:13:46 PM »
Hi craig,

am pretty new here at this Forum ...

easy and simple question for you :)

The calculated predicted starter in % you have to take off the amount of flour or water you use ?

e.g. you come up with 10% required for your selected time/temperature based on 1 kg of flour... you need 100gr of starter, right ?

In advance, thanks craig for the beginner answer :)

Yes, it is calculated as a % of the formula flour.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Antonella

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #131 on: December 04, 2013, 05:25:51 AM »
Thz Craig ,

Will show you mine results ;)


Ciao


Offline stevehollx

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #132 on: December 15, 2013, 08:30:33 PM »
I stumbled upon a sourdough calculator for bread tonight.  I figured this would be a good place to share it, in case there is reusable collateral there:
http://www.wraithnj.com/breadpics/rise_time_table/bread_model_bwraith.htm

Offline Qarl

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #133 on: January 05, 2014, 10:01:05 AM »
Just started 30-32 hour dough at 62 degrees using 10% hydration.  will post results tomorrow night.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #134 on: January 05, 2014, 11:08:05 AM »
Just started 30-32 hour dough at 62 degrees using 10% hydration.  will post results tomorrow night.
Karl,

Is there an error with the hydration number or is that the amount of starter?

Peter

Offline Qarl

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #135 on: January 05, 2014, 12:58:05 PM »
Ummm.  % starter.  LOL

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #136 on: January 05, 2014, 09:01:20 PM »
Mitch (mitchjg) asked me a question about using the data in the model to calculate the effects of multiple time/temp combinations on the same dough. Looking at the model, it occured to me that you can easily do just that with the model exactly as it is. I added a few more columns (starter%) to the chart so there is more data to work with (less extrapolation needed). I also stripped off the red zones. The data itself and model are unchanged. You could use this same technique with the chart on the first page of this thread. The charts below are optimized to make it even easier.


Example 1
Say you made a batch of dough w/1.5% starter that normally takes 48 hours at 64F to be ready. Being that it is winter and cooler in the house that normal, your fermentation set up (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18509.msg179991.html#msg179991) is running cooler than normal - 60F rather than 64F. How could you adjust your workflow to have the dough ready on time? Perhaps you could move it to the oven with the light on which is holding at about 80F, but for how long? This is the problem I faced over the past couple days.

We know from the model that 1.5% starter @ 60F should take ~69hours (1 below). I fermented the bulk for 24 hours at 60F. I then balled it and put it back into the box at 60F for another 12 hours – a total of 36 hours at 60F. According to the model, I should need another 33 at 60F (2), but the model tells us a whole lot more than that. Every data point up and down that column represents a time/temperature combination that will finish the dough. All you have to do is slide down to 80F, and you see that dough will be ready in 9 hours at 80F.

I hadn’t thought about doing this when I made my dough Thursday night – nor on Saturday morning when I moved it to the oven with the light on. It turns out however, that my results were spot-on what the model would have predicted.

IMPORTANT: Keep in mind that dough doesn’t instantly go from 60F to 80F. Actually, my oven with the light on is closer to 85F, but the average dough temp over the 9 hours was probably around 80F – just a gut feel adjustment. You might need to make adjustments recognizing this sort of thing. The shorter the window of time at a temperature, the more important the adjustment becomes as the dough temperature transition time becomes a much larger portion of the total time.


I recently used this creative method for using Craig's model for multiple fermentation temps. I was flabbergasted that it worked! Perfectly!!

And it reminded me how lucky we are to have guys like TxCraig --- and so many other brilliant members --- on this forum. Thanks again Craig!

John K
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #137 on: January 06, 2014, 08:51:08 AM »
Happy to hear the good results John.

CL
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Qarl

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #138 on: January 06, 2014, 06:36:35 PM »
Camaboldi sourdough starter

60% hydration
2% salt
Caputo 00
10% starter

12 hours at 62 degrees bulk.  Recall
18 hours at 62 degrees balled

Looks about just right!


Offline Qarl

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Re: Sourdough starter quantity predictive model
« Reply #139 on: January 06, 2014, 07:27:42 PM »
Very happy with the results


 

pizzapan