Author Topic: Making a BF crust more tender?  (Read 3184 times)

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Offline jeff v

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Making a BF crust more tender?
« on: January 04, 2013, 11:10:08 AM »
Hi All,

I'm using KABF in my home oven, baking thinner crust pizzas at 550. Does anyone have any tips on how to make the crust a bit more tender?  The recipe I've been using has a 12 hr poolish and a 18 hour bulk ferment in the fridge followed by 4-6 on the counter before balling. The dough is 70% hydration.

KABF happens to be what I have but I'd use another bread flour
I'd like to stay away from adding oil
I've seen baguette recipes where a blend w AP is used
The flour is malted-would adding any more be helpful?

I know I may be asking too much given my oven temps. I bet if I baked these in the 2stone at 650 it would be a different story. Thanks for any input.
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Offline mkevenson

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 12:25:12 PM »
Jeff, my initial thought would be to mix some caputo 00 pizzeria flour with the KABF. I have gone 50/50 with nice results.

Mark
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Offline jeff v

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 01:54:14 PM »
Jeff, my initial thought would be to mix some caputo 00 pizzeria flour with the KABF. I have gone 50/50 with nice results.
Mark

Thanks for the suggestion Mark. The taste of Caputo in a home oven is not one I enjoy, so I'm going to try 50/50 w AP.
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 02:57:07 PM »
The recipe I've been using has a 12 hr poolish and a 18 hour bulk ferment in the fridge followed by 4-6 on the counter before balling. The dough is 70% hydration.



Jeff,
What are you doing with it once the dough is balled?
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 03:27:05 PM »
Why not 100% KAAP?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline jeff v

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2013, 04:23:32 PM »
Jeff,
What are you doing with it once the dough is balled?

Let it rest for an hour or so...then make pizza.  :)
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Offline jeff v

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2013, 04:29:03 PM »
Why not 100% KAAP?

You know, of all the flours and pizzas I've tried I don't remember ever doing 100% AP. Have you? I like the pull and chew of BF but it gets a bit tough.

I went to Great Lake Pizza again which is how this started. That crust is amazing. It reminds of the best of a baguette and a pizza at the same time.
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Online Mmmph

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 04:37:51 PM »
I've used KAAP for NP, Sicilian, NY, California...Hey, it's all-purpose!
Just work it longer for more gluten development.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2013, 05:12:18 PM »
You know, of all the flours and pizzas I've tried I don't remember ever doing 100% AP. Have you?

KAAP is the only flour I used until I got the WFO and went to Caputo.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline jeff v

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2013, 05:50:20 PM »
KAAP is the only flour I used until I got the WFO and went to Caputo.

I have a poolish of 50/50  going right now, but I'll try that next week.
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Offline mvd

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2013, 06:53:20 PM »
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "tender." Do you mean you want it less crispy? You say that you don't want to add oil, so aside from trying a different flour, my only suggestion would be reduce the fermentation time (maybe omit the poolish?). But that might affect the flavor too much.
Mike

Offline jeff v

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2013, 07:44:28 PM »
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "tender." Do you mean you want it less crispy? You say that you don't want to add oil, so aside from trying a different flour, my only suggestion would be reduce the fermentation time (maybe omit the poolish?). But that might affect the flavor too much.

Maybe less chewy or tough is a better way to say it.
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Offline jeff v

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 07:45:03 PM »
Anyone have experience adding malt powder to an already malted flour?
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2013, 07:53:34 PM »
Maybe less chewy or tough is a better way to say it.

Have you ever tried a higher protein flour than BF?
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Offline norma427

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 10:09:47 PM »
Anyone have experience adding malt powder to an already malted flour?


Jeff,

I did try dry malt in a couple of formulations for pizza dough.  If you are interested you can see what Tom Lehmann said at Reply 20 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18281.msg177389.html#msg177389 and then what I posted in the next post after Tom.

I also used malt in the Fairmont Bagel Pizza.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12463.msg118694.html#msg118694

I know I used malt in other pizza doughs, but canít recall right now what they were or even if I used malted flours with malt powder.

Norma
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Offline jeff v

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2013, 10:31:44 PM »
Have you ever tried a higher protein flour than BF?

I think higher protein would be taking me the wrong way Bob.
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Offline jeff v

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2013, 10:34:51 PM »
Jeff,

I did try dry malt in a couple of formulations for pizza dough.  If you are interested you can see what Tom Lehmann said at Reply 20 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18281.msg177389.html#msg177389 and then what I posted in the next post after Tom.

I also used malt in the Fairmont Bagel Pizza.  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12463.msg118694.html#msg118694

I know I used malt in other pizza doughs, but canít recall right now what they were or even if I used malted flours with malt powder.

Norma


Thanks Norma. Based on Toms response it looks like its not a good idea to add any kind of malt to an already malted flour.
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2013, 08:40:01 AM »
Jeff,

As others have noted, to get a more tender, less chewy crust, the most frequently recommended practice is to use a lower protein flour. It doesn't have to be all-purpose flour but the flour should have a lower protein content than bread flour in your case. You can use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator to test out different flour blends to get a protein content somewhere between bread flour and all-purpose flour.

Sugar is also often used to tenderize a crust, along with oil (which you have ruled out for now). Sugar is a hygroscopic substance and helps retain moisture in the dough during baking. However, you would have to use a fair amount of sugar to have the desired crust softening effect. Honey is even more hygroscopic than sugar and will also add a bit more moisture to the dough (since honey is about 17 percent water). You already have a high hydration value so you shouldn't need to increase the current value. Adding a bit more yeast as part of the final mix might give you a greater rise in the finished crust and create more of a sensation of softness and tenderness.

Peter

Offline jeff v

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2013, 03:02:01 PM »
I hadn't used or seen that tool. Thanks Peter.

I'm going to use a couple blends then probably add some honey if I'm still not happy. I will also probably dial the hydration back in future batches given the AP flour.
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Offline norma427

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Re: Making a BF crust more tender?
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2013, 05:29:49 PM »

I hadn't used or seen that tool.
 


Jeff,

I tried to access the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to show you it, but my computer wonít let me access it.  I donít know if anyone else is having problems accessing Novemberís tool or not.

Norma
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