Author Topic: Second attempt... much better all around.  (Read 7991 times)

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Offline Ev

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2013, 10:14:55 AM »
Ok, so to make it easier for you, just getting started and all, I'd suggest a lower hydration, say about 61 or 62%.
it'll be much easier to handle and should still give you good results. Omitting the sugar may also be a good idea, as sugar can be prone to scorching, which is already going to be hard enough to avoid using steel. You may also want to start off with a lower temp, maybe around 475 with a longer bake and work your way up to the high temp, fast bake. Give it a shot and post your results and go from there. :chef:


Offline mistachy

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2013, 10:18:13 AM »
thanks, hoping i can bake my first pizza today have pics posted. ill cut the sugar and use 63 hydration. I have oil at 2%, im guessing that will be fine to start with

Offline Ev

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2013, 10:22:30 AM »
I think that'll work. Just keep an eye on the bottom of the pizza and be prepared to slide your peel under it if need be, and finish with the broiler. Good luck!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2013, 10:39:57 AM »
thanks, hoping i can bake my first pizza today have pics posted. ill cut the sugar and use 63 hydration. I have oil at 2%, im guessing that will be fine to start with

I think you might prefer your crust made with melted shortening as opposed to olive oil.

CL
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline mistachy

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2013, 10:41:24 AM »
I think you might prefer your crust made with melted shortening as opposed to olive oil.

CL
WHat made you reach this conclusion?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2013, 11:12:58 AM »
WHat made you reach this conclusion?

Because you like crispy GBD, and that's what it does.
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline mistachy

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2013, 11:33:43 AM »
Because you like crispy GBD, and that's what it does.
Crisco would you suggest? Or a different brand, im not partial to olive oil. Thanks for the recommendation

Offline mistachy

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2013, 11:42:55 AM »
Okay, this is what I'm rolling with, will post results.

Ingredients:
Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
ADY (.4%):
Salt (2%):
Shortening (3%):
Total (168.4%):
436.96 g  |  15.41 oz | 0.96 lbs
275.29 g  |  9.71 oz | 0.61 lbs
1.75 g | 0.06 oz | 0 lbs | 0.46 tsp | 0.15 tbsp
8.74 g | 0.31 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.57 tsp | 0.52 tbsp
13.11 g | 0.46 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.28 tsp | 1.09 tbsp
735.85 g | 25.96 oz | 1.62 lbs | TF = 0.102

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2013, 12:11:33 PM »
Crisco would you suggest? Or a different brand, im not partial to olive oil. Thanks for the recommendation

Crisco is the best retail choice available. MFB is better but I think it's foodservice only.
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline Ev

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2013, 12:51:51 PM »

You might want to reduce the thickness factor to .09 or even .08, which would be more in line with the N.Y. style.

Offline mistachy

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2013, 01:22:34 PM »
You might want to reduce the thickness factor to .09 or even .08, which would be more in line with the N.Y. style.
I was going with more thickness so my greasy pepperoni and Italian sausage doesnt make my crust all soggy. I pile that stuff on. What do you think?

Offline Ev

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2013, 01:36:12 PM »
Hey, go for it! You can play with TF down the road if you need to. Just don't get discouraged if your pizza is not what you're hoping for right away. It's a journey. Enjoy the ride.

Offline shuboyje

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2013, 04:13:34 PM »
I'm by no means an expert on American style pizza, but it seems like this is heading in that direction.  Why not just start with Pete-Za's Papa John's clone and work back toward New York style from there?
-Jeff

Offline mistachy

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2013, 04:21:44 PM »
I'm by no means an expert on American style pizza, but it seems like this is heading in that direction.  Why not just start with Pete-Za's Papa John's clone and work back toward New York style from there?
I put  .1 in the calculator, 18 inches. So that's the thickness it should be right?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2013, 06:46:55 PM »
I put  .1 in the calculator, 18 inches. So that's the thickness it should be right?

DJ,

You aren't quite in Papa John's territory with what you have done so far but perhaps something between PJ territory and NY style. Just go with what you have and see how you like the results.

Peter

scott123

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2013, 08:40:07 PM »
I put  .1 in the calculator, 18 inches. So that's the thickness it should be right?

No, the pizzas you have in your photos range from .075 to .085.  Thinner pizzas can be a bit harder to stretch, so you might start off with .085, but I would eventually work your way down to .075.

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2013, 02:59:31 PM »
While your advice is spot on to prevent cheese from browning, it also risks rubbery insufficiently melted cheese, potentially producing less flavor.  If browning is a problem, I think the better approach is fat.  Make sure the cheese is block whole milk and a quality brand, and add a drizzle of oil to any non pepperoni pies. Once you have sufficient fat, a lot of the browning issues go away, as the cheese bubbles properly.

I kind of touched on typical pizza shop style. We always grate blocks of whole milk and since they are always done ahead of time they are always kept cold (even in the prep table). It makes for an easy and most importantly even distrubution. The dough has to be formulated properly to allow the crust to brown and cheese (a high quality one) to melt at approximately the same time or else he'll end up with the unmelted goo you speak of. I think he'll learn in time that it takes time to develop a good pie all around on a consistent basis. Passion is the key mistachy, and experimentation. Not everything will always go right. Mistakes are good, they help you rule certain things out and as a result you get a step closer to "your" perfect pizza each time.

I agree with Scott to start off with a thicker skin. Once you get the hang of stretching it you can go thinner, otherwise you may end up with your fist through it.
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scott123

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2013, 03:12:48 PM »
I kind of touched on typical pizza shop style. We always grate blocks of whole milk and since they are always done ahead of time they are always kept cold (even in the prep table). It makes for an easy and most importantly even distrubution. The dough has to be formulated properly to allow the crust to brown and cheese (a high quality one) to melt at approximately the same time or else he'll end up with the unmelted goo you speak of.

For a shop, that's excellent advice.  You have a lot more leeway with your high quality cheese.  The fat in Grande/Grande clones goes a long way to prevent it from browning prematurely. It also melts far easier when broken up into larger pieces.  For DJ (Mistachy), who's most likely working with supermarket cheese, the tolerances get a lot tighter.  Without additional fat (from pepperoni or a drizzle of oil), it browns a LOT faster, and when broken up into larger chunks, the potential for unmelted goo is huge. Food service motz browns slower, melts faster and is much less likely to curdle with longer intense bakes.


Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2013, 04:18:55 PM »
You are correct. Just the home environment alone is enough to command tweaks to the workflow and challenge even a seasoned pizza maker. I do agree about the fat, it will almost provide a thin barrier from the heat for a time allowing the bake to somewhat "even out". I confess to not having much experience with the store bought cheeses (I'm fortunate enough to not have to resort to the store for many ingredients) and commend everyone who has shown success using them  :pizza:
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Offline mistachy

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2013, 06:23:17 PM »
No, the pizzas you have in your photos range from .075 to .085.  Thinner pizzas can be a bit harder to stretch, so you might start off with .085, but I would eventually work your way down to .075.
i havent had any issue stretching dough so far. and i always do 18 inches. with 1 lb balls.

scott123

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2013, 07:39:22 PM »
DJ, are you sure about the dough ball weight and final dimension?  According to my calculations that's .06, which would be incredibly difficult to stretch, imo. If you're comfortable with .06, then I'd work with .075, with an almost rimless relatively even stretch that Craig referred to before.

Offline mistachy

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2013, 07:56:38 PM »
i kept seeing .1 as what NY style is supposed to be, that is the only reason I put .1 in the calculator. so far, ive only bought pre made 1lb balls that the italian deli sells. they are supposed to be for 16 inch pizzas normal thickness but i stretch them out to 18 inches and i end up with very thin pizza.  Pic: http://sdrv.ms/ZdgiCv http://sdrv.ms/ZupVBo

so if u say .1 is thick then yes, i will scale it down.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 08:00:29 PM by mistachy »

scott123

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2013, 09:15:33 PM »
DJ, the .1 listed in the dough calculator is a somewhat contentious figure that's been debated in the past regarding authenticity, and will continue to be debated in the future.  That debate isn't relevant to this discussion, though. I'm just recommending .075 to .085 based on the photos of the pizzas you're striving towards.

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2013, 10:17:54 PM »
i kept seeing .1 as what NY style is supposed to be, that is the only reason I put .1 in the calculator. so far, ive only bought pre made 1lb balls that the italian deli sells. they are supposed to be for 16 inch pizzas normal thickness but i stretch them out to 18 inches and i end up with very thin pizza.

I think that a 16oz dough ball is a bit too light for even a 16 inch pie. Since you're not making it yourself you may want to try to scale it down to a 14 inch pie. We (at the shop) usually use a 20oz ball for a 16 incher and a 16 oz for a 14 incher. I've only recently pushed the ante up slightly to 21.5 and 17.5 respectively since I enjoy a slightly larger cornicone.
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Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Different baking techniques...
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2013, 03:08:44 AM »
i generally use 22oz for a topping-friendly 16" pizza, but lately i've been playing with 20oz and they are thick for a ny style.  18.5oz may be the target for you though

95% sams club HG flour, 5% bob VWG
65% water
.5% oil
.5% sugar
1.3% salt
and yeast is from .3% -1.5%, depending on warm counter rise/cold rise, to two hours to bake (water slightly warmed to 85-90f)

and i get the chewy soft melty inner crumb, and a lightly crisp outside that is still firm enough to handle folding and excessive toppings.
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