Author Topic: Starting Journey With Self-Cleaning Cycle - Learning Lessons - Having Fun!  (Read 2487 times)

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Offline MrPibbs

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Still very new here, and for some reason have jumped from the 2Stone on my Weber Genesis grill setup, to cutting off the locking tab of my Whirlpool oven.  I think it was related to my grill being buried in 8" of snow.  Anyway, this homemade pizza hobby has bitten because the last decent tasting local pizza place here in southeast CT just turned to crap the last two times.  I now have the Italian cultures from sourdo.com but I have to read the book and quick guide first.

My first two self-cleaning oven pizzas used Pete-zza's recipe in the first Lehman NY style pizza post.  63% hydration with All Trumps, IDY, salt, tsp sugar & oil. Cold ferment x 3 days. Took out about 2 hrs before starting so all ingredients would be at room temp, but dough rose 2-3 times.  I put the stone in at start of 2hr 30 min cleaning cycle, on medium rack, covered with aluminum foil.  Somewhere about 45 -50 mins into cooking, I used my Raytek MT6 to measure surface temp of foil on top of stone at 875-900F.  Removed foil and started making first of two 13" pizzas.

I dusted wood peel with 1/3 KAAP, 1/3 Semolina, 1/3 Cornmeal and transferred pizza onto stone.  It looked done, with charred larger bubbles on crust after 2-2:30 mins.  Had to scrape a bit with peel to free up from stone where some burned dough  was stuck on stone.  About the time I got the pizza on the peel, the smoke detector said hello, alarming my wife in the other room.  I removed the battery--first problem solved!

Pizza was almost cooked enough on top, but mostly burned on bottom.   A little better result with 2nd pizza kept in for only 2 mins....but still some charred bottom.

Second attempt tonight.  This time used Caputo 00, water, IDY, salt (63%)--no oil or sugar. No cornmeal in dusting flour. Followed Varasano's 20 min autolyze wait, and end mixing wait before 2 days in frig as described on his website.  Took out dough about 45 mins before starting to make pizzas. Started self-cleaning cycle without stone.  About 35 mins later, inserted fibrament stone with aluminum peel...and finished making first pizza 20 mins later.  Temp on stone was only in 510F range, but upper oven walls around 820F, so first pizza in for about 4 mins & got overcooked on top, and undercooked (no charring) on bottom.  Totally edible, but not ideal.

Second pizza I waited another 15 mins (1 hr 15 mins into self-cleaning; 40 mins of stone heating up) before sliding onto 680F stone with walls at 830F.  Pix below was with about 2 min 30 sec cook, and pretty close to photos I have seen.  This had 2/3 sliced ham & extra (Grande East Coast shredded) cheese, 1/3 Stop & Shop fresh Mozzarella.), and a little heavy on the sauce.  I know I still have to add the Ischia culture to the dough for more flavor, and put the stone in a little earlier, but slowly making progress.  Wife thinks I'm crazy, but also likes the results.


Online mkevenson

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Ain't it great to experiment? So many possibilities. What cheese are you using? I like the browning of the cheese. I do believe that really high heat has it's place in baking some pizza, but more moderate temps also work really well.
Continue the journey, the snow will melt in a few months.

Mark
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Offline PizzaJerk

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What rack do you put your stone on? Upper, middle or lower?
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Offline MrPibbs

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Middle Rack.

I did a whole separate set of measurements last night with just the fibrament stone in the oven after it cooled down out on counter, to more carefully watch what was happening with the actual measured temps. Opened the door as little, and as briefly as possible to take a swirl of stone & then upper wall measurements.  This would be somewhat comparable to time opening door to insert pizza. The Raytek stores the max temp.  It leads me to plan inserting stone only 10 mins into self-cleaning cycle, and plan on cooking at 1 hour mark. Here's what I got:

2 Hr 30 Min Self Cleaning Cycle

Only Top Burner Element Turns On


    15 Mins - 406F on stone. 560F on Walls
    25 Mins - 551F on stone. 624F on Walls
    35 Mins - 660F on stone. 714F on Walls
    45 Mins - 745F on stone. 802F on Walls
    55 Mins - 809F on stone. 860F on Walls
    65 Mins - 837F on stone. 904F on Walls

70 Mins - Top & Bottom Coils Now On - (Both elements cycle on/off likely based on an internal temp probe--seems to be keeping air temp at 1000F)

    75 Mins - 852F on stone. 920F on Walls
    85 Mins - 870F on stone. 954F on walls
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 03:47:01 PM by MrPibbs »

Offline MrPibbs

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I got my Ischia culture from sourdo.com and now I need a proofing box.  I know I could try to figure out the light bulb temp in a box, but I can think of other uses for this box.  The journey continues.

Offline MrPibbs

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Got my Ischia activating now.  I'm seeing this regular use of the self-cleaning cycle may subject the oven to internal component damage over the long haul...then I'm gonna have some 'splaining to my dear, sweet wife.  I can see this heading towards getting a 2stone Inferno upgrade from my Weber Grill 2 Stone setup.  Have to see how much difference the Ischia makes with the 900F cooking vs. 600F on the 2stone grill setup.

Offline MrPibbs

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I seem to be talking to myself in this thread.  That's never a good sign.   :-D

Offline Bill/SFNM

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 and now I need a proofing box.  I know I could try to figure out the light bulb temp in a box, but I can think of other uses for this box.  The journey continues.


Not sure this box will be suitable once you have your culture activated. I get best results from wild starters when fermenting in the range of 60F-65F.

Offline TXCraig1

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I got my Ischia culture from sourdo.com and now I need a proofing box.  I know I could try to figure out the light bulb temp in a box, but I can think of other uses for this box.  The journey continues.

I activated in the oven with the light on.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline thezaman

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 i have to say that is a beautiful pizza,not neapolitan but coal style or neo ny style. looks great!!! I'll take one please :chef:


Offline MrPibbs

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Re: Starting Journey With Self-Cleaning Cycle - Learning Lessons - Having Fun!
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 02:34:06 PM »
Not sure this box will be suitable once you have your culture activated. I get best results from wild starters when fermenting in the range of 60F-65F.

Good point.  60-65F is OK in winter in the garage or laundry room, but that's way cooler than what our summer AC would be at, and too warm for a Frig.  Hmmm   ???  Not sure what to do for that yet.

I activated in the oven with the light on.
  I thought of that first, but ours has tiny bulbs that don't put out any real heat, plus there's no way I could "commandeer" our oven for 5 days.

i have to say that is a beautiful pizza,not neapolitan but coal style or neo ny style. looks great!!! I'll take one please :chef:

Neo-NY Style.  I like the sound of that, and suspect I'll probably end up settling with that compromise in the long run.

I really wish I could travel all around the country and eat a slice of all the wonderful looking pizzas I see posted in various threads here.

scott123

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Re: Starting Journey With Self-Cleaning Cycle - Learning Lessons - Having Fun!
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 09:28:29 PM »
MrPibbs,  I'm aware that your results seem to point to Neo-NY, but what style was your original goal?

Can you turn the broiler on and off during the cleaning cycle?  If so, then put the stone 5-7" away from the broiler, pre-heat the stone to 650 and use the broiler during the bake.

No convection with this oven, correct?

It's time to start shopping for a new mozzarella. It all depends on what style you're striving for, but, for this bake time, the stop and shop fresh mozz is probably to be avoided.  The east coast blend might not be ideal either, due to the part skim component encouraging browning because of the lack of fat. If you do want to stick to these cheeses, add more fat in the form of oil or pepperoni.

Offline MrPibbs

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Re: Starting Journey With Self-Cleaning Cycle - Learning Lessons - Having Fun!
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 11:17:01 PM »
MrPibbs,  I'm aware that your results seem to point to Neo-NY, but what style was your original goal?

Can you turn the broiler on and off during the cleaning cycle?  If so, then put the stone 5-7" away from the broiler, pre-heat the stone to 650 and use the broiler during the bake.

No convection with this oven, correct?

It's time to start shopping for a new mozzarella. It all depends on what style you're striving for, but, for this bake time, the stop and shop fresh mozz is probably to be avoided.  The east coast blend might not be ideal either, due to the part skim component encouraging browning because of the lack of fat. If you do want to stick to these cheeses, add more fat in the form of oil or pepperoni.

Scott,

To be honest, I'm so new with making my own pizzas that the only thing I really know about Neo was what I read on Jeff Varasano's website.  I don't think I have ever tasted a REAL Neo, but in the oven's cleaning cycle, I was trying to emulate Jeff's website writeup.

I started using your first post NY Style Lehman adaptation 65% (with KASL, then changed to All Trumps) using both oil & sugar; SAF IDY mixed until smooth (7-8mins) in Bosch Universal, cold ferment for 3-5 days; cooked for 6-7 mins on 580-620F 2-Stone setup on my Weber Genesis grill.  That was the best pizza any of us had ever had, and I really would be completely happy doing it that way. But then it snowed about 8-9 inches.   :o

I started reading about Jeff's self-cleaning oven hack, the 20 min autolyse, etc., I figured I would explore what he did.  I didn't have any sourdough starters (which I am doing now), but tried to follow his guidelines with Caputo 00, no oil or sugar dough, using IDY interimly.  I don't know what kinds of Mozarella to get for this style, so any suggestions would be great.

My Whirlpool oven does have a fan circulating air out through vents in the front, so I think there is some degree of convection.  I think my 3rd post in this thread, I wrote my measured temps during the SC cycle. The top broiler stays on continuously for the first 70 mins; thereafter both top and bottom both cycle on/off together keeping 975-1000F temp inside.

Offline David Deas

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Re: Starting Journey With Self-Cleaning Cycle - Learning Lessons - Having Fun!
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2013, 12:48:45 AM »
There are a couple of really neat threads about this sort of thing.  One of them is here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10024.0

Not sure where or what the other thread was called.  I think it was one of Jackie's.

Offline MrPibbs

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Re: Starting Journey With Self-Cleaning Cycle - Learning Lessons - Having Fun!
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2013, 10:22:09 PM »
I think I'm going back to Pete's version of the Lehman NY Style dough in the first post, and the Grande E. Coast blend, and bag this self-cleaning cycle.

I followed Verasanos writeup, including the Caputo 00, Ischia starter, autolysis delays, etc. as precisely as I could.  After 3 days in the frig, the dough was so wet/goopy that trying to just get it stretched without it oozing into oblong shapes, and sticking to the dusted marble and peel was hopeless (for me).  I had to keep adding more flour, then would see it tear in 1 or more areas.  I pulled it up twice off peel when it stuck and reshaping into a ball, more flour, stuck again.  By the time I was done screwing around with the dough, and making sure it was sliding on the peel, the stone was too hot and the flour burned, rendering the 2nd pie nearly inedible.  Didn't get the steam rise at all, and some of the dough despite being the right doneness brown colors still had a slight undercooked flavor/texture.

If Jeff and others can get this to work, despite the stone temp continuing to rise above 900F with the processing time of more than one pie...my hat is off to him.  This last time definitely was the opposite of having fun trying this method out.

I think I'm just going to go back to the 2Stone Weber grill setup which gave wonderfully tasting pizzas @ 650F.  The only thing I might try experimenting since I got it for this self-cleaning neopolitan experiment is if the Ishia replacing some or all of the IDY would make much improvement over just the IDY that Pete lists here.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 07:23:48 PM by MrPibbs »

Offline sub

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Re: Starting Journey With Self-Cleaning Cycle - Learning Lessons - Having Fun!
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2013, 08:02:22 AM »
Hi MrPibbs,

Quick tips:

put your stone on the upper rack, closest to the top heating element is the better (like 3inch)  with the quick bake less than 90 seconds the pies doesn't burn

temp of the stone before your put the pizzas in (716-752)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 08:03:58 AM by sub »

scott123

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Re: Starting Journey With Self-Cleaning Cycle - Learning Lessons - Having Fun!
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2013, 06:09:55 PM »
MrPibbs, I think you mean Peter's recipe, not mine, correct?

Offline MrPibbs

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Re: Starting Journey With Self-Cleaning Cycle - Learning Lessons - Having Fun!
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2013, 07:24:11 PM »
MrPibbs, I think you mean Peter's recipe, not mine, correct?

Yeah, sorry.  Corrected above post.  You are both Pizza Gods, so I confuse you.   :)