Author Topic: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings  (Read 2278 times)

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Offline Sqid

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Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« on: January 14, 2013, 09:54:08 PM »
Assuming size difference (16" vs 12") and that the base is the same dough formula.   Apart from the lack of basil, what if any differences would a New York Slice have compared to a Margherita.

They will both be cooked in the same oven, probably the NY slice will be slightly under cooked to allow for reheating.  I'm looking for some defining feature to distinguish them.

Any ideas appreciated.



Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 10:15:25 PM »
cheese.....one is aged and one is fresh(normally)
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Offline scott123

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 10:31:56 PM »
'Margherita' is a somewhat confusing term that has multiple meanings.  It can be the traditional Neapolitan pizza with only tomatoes, cheese and basil, or it can be used in New York/Quasi New York establishments to usually signify a plan pie with basil, but the definition is a bit looser.  For NY places, it's more of a marketing term, and, imo, a poor marketing term at that. Misguided owners try to class up the place while losing sight of the humble yet glorious potential of a plain slice. I don't automatically walk out when I see it on the menu, but it's a pretty huge black mark.

It's a Neapolitan term, through and through, and should only be utilized in the Neapolitan style arena. It has no place in non coal NY style pizzerias (coal get's a little more leeway because of it's history/ties to Neapolitan pizza).

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 10:32:36 PM »
To me, there is a Margherita and a "margherita," and only a Margherita is a Margherita. If it's not a Margherita, it's just marketing.

If you only looked at the ingredients, you might think there was very little difference between the two when in actuality, they are quite different.

Pizza is not bread.

Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2013, 10:36:24 PM »
If ever I would agree to pin down a pizza to a particular style and ingredient list, the Margherita would be it.  It is clearly defined by both tradition and technique, and it is only the one on the right above.

Offline Qarl

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2013, 10:48:02 PM »
I would think you could make an argument with flour as well too.

A Neopolitan Margherita-style may use Caputo 00 exclusively whereas New York pizzerias may use bromated pizzeria flour.

In respect to cheese... shredded (aged) mozzarella as already mentioned versus chunks or slices of fresh mozzarella

Ovens?  Perhaps a Baker's Pride oven  for NY-style versus a coal-fired or wood-fired oven used to bake a Margherita pie



Offline gfgman

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2013, 11:31:58 PM »
I sometimes make what I call a Margherita, though technically it's not.  It doesn't look like the picture.  I use the same dough as my regular pizza.  I use SM crushed tomatoes straight out of the can, fresh basil, and fresh mozz.  I chop my basil and sprinkle it over the tomatoes on the pie, and I usually freeze the fresh mozz and shred it.  I've baked it in the oven and on the grill.  It's great either way.  I imagine it has a similar taste to what is pictured, but again, a different construction and appearance. 

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2013, 10:32:04 AM »
I imagine it has a similar taste to what is pictured, but again, a different construction and appearance. 

I think you’ll find that it doesn’t taste similar at all. This is why I wrote “only Margherita is a Margherita.” While other pies may sound similar, they are in fact very different – not only in appearance, but also in taste and texture. I’m not saying one is necessarily better than the other – that is a matter of personal preference – rather, simply that they are different.

Some of the differences can be described – softer crust, more subtle sauce, every bite different – however, some can’t – the importance of balance, the freshness and lightness, the necessity of perfection. I don’t think it’s possible to really understand the difference until you’ve tried a truly great NP-style pie.

I can remember my first great Neapolitan-inspired pizzas like it was yesterday – Una Pizza Neapolitana and Luzzo’s right around the corner. The phrase “life changing” gets thrown around a lot; in this case, it really was.
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Offline JConk007

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2013, 10:58:50 AM »
As scott mentioned my local pizzeria (ny style) sells a Margherita.Margherita it's not! It's the same pie with a few thin slices of fresh mozzarella, and 4 pieces of basil  :-D I will put up a pic it's not even appetizing its discussing !
Back to topic  simply said, I use better topping than any slice joint around.
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Offline RobynB

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2013, 12:12:42 PM »
I can remember my first great Neapolitan-inspired pizzas like it was yesterday – Una Pizza Neapolitana and Luzzo’s right around the corner. The phrase “life changing” gets thrown around a lot; in this case, it really was.


Yep - different restaurant for me, but the same experience.  That was an expensive Margherita  ;D

To me, the non-neapolitan one is a cheese pizza.  Add basil or not, use fresh sauce or cooked, the one on the left in Craig's pics is a cheese pizza.  The only Margherita  is wood-fired neapolitan. 


Online TXCraig1

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2013, 12:53:09 PM »
That was an expensive Margherita  ;D

+1
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Offline Sqid

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 07:06:22 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.   We do luuv pizza!

I'm intending to use the terms in purely marketing catchy ways  :-D as I don't have a plan to install a WFO next to my deck oven.

A couple of you mentioned aged cheese for the NY slice.   Am I correct in assuming that you are refering to commercially packaged moz that can be bought in the supermarket?   I've been considering adding 'povolone' or another type of cheese to the NY to differentiate it, does this ever happen in NY?

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 07:40:33 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.   We do luuv pizza!

I'm intending to use the terms in purely marketing catchy ways  :-D as I don't have a plan to install a WFO next to my deck oven.

A couple of you mentioned aged cheese for the NY slice.   Am I correct in assuming that you are refering to commercially packaged moz that can be bought in the supermarket?   I've been considering adding 'povolone' or another type of cheese to the NY to differentiate it, does this ever happen in NY?
Yes...regular 'ol cheese. Grated, blocks, bricks, etc.. "Aged" meaning it is the dryer, firm type of cheese rather than the "fresh" normally associated with WFO type pies   ;)

Adding provo, cheddar, Gouda etc.  :D...is the way to go in my book.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 07:43:20 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline scott123

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2013, 07:50:45 PM »
I'm intending to use the terms in purely marketing catchy ways  :-D

Please don't fall into this marketing crap.  No matter where you are in the world, if you're putting out world class pizza, the money will flow.
 
Speaking of putting out world class pizza, how's the new oven going?  ;D

Offline scott123

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2013, 07:59:53 PM »
I've been considering adding 'povolone' or another type of cheese to the NY to differentiate it, does this ever happen in NY?

You're going to find different opinions on provolone.  I find it to be an acquired taste.  While Italian cheeses like mozzarella, parm and ricotta have universal appeal, provolone, at least some brands of provolone, can have a musky quality that's not for everyone.  Larry (thezaman) puts some provolone in his Ohio style pies and it's wonderful, but every time I try messing with provolone, no matter how much I use, it takes over and ruins the cheese.

To put it bluntly, provolone can get a bit body odor-ish. If it's mild, it's not too bad, but it can be difficult finding a mild provolone.

Imo, a good aged brick mozzarella really shouldn't need any other cheese. A sprinkle of romano is nice, but not always essential.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2013, 08:20:49 PM »


Imo, a good aged brick mozzarella really shouldn't need any other cheese. A sprinkle of romano is nice, but not always essential.
Oh how true....IF (imo) it's Grande cheese or a comparable clone. Nothing finer on a good 'ol slice of NY pie!  :)
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Offline Sqid

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2013, 09:06:20 PM »
I've got to call my "cheese, tomato, basil" pizza something!   It's already on the menu anyway.   The NY slice is the new item.

I'll do a taste test on provolone and romano today.  Is 'romano' the same as pecarino romano?

Ahh.... the oven.   The b#**^y oven!  I owe it to that thread, to give an update!

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2013, 09:22:22 PM »

I'll do a taste test on provolone and romano today. Is 'romano' the same as pecarino romano?

Ahh.... the oven.   The b#**^y oven!  I owe it to that thread, to give an update!
Google is my friend Squid.  ;D  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecorino_Romano

My local slice joint gives the sauce a light dusting of really fine grated Romano and a pinch of dried herbs before applying the Grande.  ;)
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Offline scott123

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2013, 09:26:29 PM »
I've got to call my "cheese, tomato, basil" pizza something!   It's already on the menu anyway.   The NY slice is the new item.

See, that's what everyone's trying to tell you  ;D If your "cheese, tomato, basil" pizza is cooked for longer than 2 minutes, it already is a NY slice.  The basil really doesn't change anything.

Offline Sqid

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Re: Difference between New York slice and Margherita toppings
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2013, 09:27:57 PM »
Not the same cheese then ;D


 

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