Author Topic: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help  (Read 1042 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« on: January 18, 2013, 03:26:31 PM »
Here is what I got at my new grain mill shop....
Sir Lancelot high gluten
All Trumps
Occident
Kyrol
I have an oven setup that can do 4 min pies.
Just to get my feet wet with these flours I would like to do 2 different flours/recipes each session. I am anxious so would like to do a couple same day trials just to start out with....Autolyse/preferment/poolish maybe? I will try any recommended formulas/recipes and report back here with pics/summary. Thank you for the help.
Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


Offline bfguilford

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 616
  • Location: Near New Haven, CT
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 04:41:25 PM »
Bob:

Score indeed!

The only same day dough I've made is the JerryMac NY style found here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=531ff402726f97d932f386517f6583e9&/topic,5851.msg49940.html#msg49940

It's good, but I found that it didn't develop the same taste profile as a 2-3 day Lehmann, and certainly not the same taste profile of a 7-10 day Glutenboy. Good luck.

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline Glutenboy

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 399
  • Location: Los Angeles, CA
  • Pizza & Sex -- Good? Great! Bad? Still okay.
    • My Pizza Gallery
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 05:06:29 PM »
Bob -

Here's my two cents.  I know there are those who will disagree with me on this point, but my own experiments and experience lead me to stand firm.  Same-day doughs are inherently less flavorful than those that get extended fermentation.  I don't have a lot of experience with starters, so I can't speak to that, but if there's a subsitute for time to develop flavor, I haven't found it yet.  I don't do the long cold ferment because it's more convenient; it's not!  I will say this:  All-Trumps is great for the Glutenboy dough.  It goes longer in the fridge, stretches easily, and browns beautifully.  If you're determined to do a same-day dough, which I know is unavoidable due to convenience at times, try a preferment on the counter with the yeast and only part of the flour.  I've never had really exciting results (despite the encouraging scent of fermentation from the mix), but maybe it'll move things along a bit in the flavor department.  I haven't worked with those other flours; so I can't give any opinion on how they'll perform.  Please post results!!!

- GB
Quote under my pic excludes Little Caesar's.

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2013, 05:17:16 PM »
Bob,

Those are all great flours indeed. I have only experience with the All Trumps (bromated version) and it is absolutely fantastic for NY-style pies as you can see here:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8093.msg125704.html#msg125704

Norma, on the other side, should have more experience with the Sir Lancelot and Kyrol. Don't know about the Occident one. As far as a same-day doughs go, I had great success with one I declared "The winner!" but don't have the formula with me here at work. I'll post it later on.
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Offline Essen1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3277
  • Location: SF Bay Area
    • The Hobby Cook
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 05:17:59 PM »
Bob -

Here's my two cents.  I know there are those who will disagree with me on this point, but my own experiments and experience lead me to stand firm.  Same-day doughs are inherently less flavorful than those that get extended fermentation.  I don't have a lot of experience with starters, so I can't speak to that, but if there's a subsitute for time to develop flavor, I haven't found it yet.  I don't do the long cold ferment because it's more convenient; it's not!  I will say this:  All-Trumps is great for the Glutenboy dough.  It goes longer in the fridge, stretches easily, and browns beautifully.  If you're determined to do a same-day dough, which I know is unavoidable due to convenience at times, try a preferment on the counter with the yeast and only part of the flour.  I've never had really exciting results (despite the encouraging scent of fermentation from the mix), but maybe it'll move things along a bit in the flavor department.  I haven't worked with those other flours; so I can't give any opinion on how they'll perform.  Please post results!!!

- GB




+1
Mike

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new."  - Albert Einstein

http://thehobbycook.blogspot.com/

Online tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1194
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 05:18:23 PM »
Try this recipe that was submitted by Steve Zinkski. It is almost instantaneous and is really good. Here is the link:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1311.msg17388.html#msg17388

Somewhere on the forum someone said that Shakey's used nothing but flour, water, salt, and (I believe) oil. No leavening agents were used (i.e., no yeast, etc.) and the dough was made and used immediately.

So, tonight my wife and I did the big "handoff" with the kids... I came home from work, she left for work. Nothing was prepped for dinner and mine and the kids choices were canned soup or cereal. You get the drift.

So, I decided that this would be a good opportunity to make a "Shakey's" style pizza.

My recipe:

16 oz. high-gluten flour
6.5 oz. water
1 tbsp. vegetable shortening
1 tsp. salt

I threw all the ingredients into my food processor and "mixed" until it had the consistency of cornmeal. I dumped the "dough" onto the counter, pressed into a ball, and immediately rolled out thin (this took awhile... the dough did not want to roll out, so I had to let it rest for brief periods of time). Once it was rolled out, I placed in a greased cutter pan and par-baked for 4 minutes at 500 degrees F. After the par-bake, I added sauce, cheese, and pepperoni. The pizza was then baked for about 10 minutes longer until the crust (and bottom) was a golden brown. The pizza was allowed to cool on a wire rack.

The pizza was very good in my opinion. It did not have the yeasty or fermented taste of the DKM thin crust, but it did have a VERY crisp and cracker-like (saltine-like) texture with a clean taste. Actually, it's exactly the way I remember Shakey's pizza!

So, long story short, this one is a winner! And, from start to finish, the pizza was done in under 30 minutes!  

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 07:53:28 PM »
Thanks Tin Roof but I am looking for NY recipes. I have made Steve's quick and easy several times and you are right, it is a Winner.
Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline waltertore

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 1407
  • Location: granville ohio
    • The Smiling With Hope Bakery
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 09:40:09 PM »
Hi Bob:  Have fun with the new dough!  What kind of oven do you have?  I have found the same day doughs are not near as good as the overnight, several day doughs.  I use all trumps bromated and have found this one to be the best for my NY based pies.  When I am in a jam for  same day doughs I do the same dough recipe I do for cold ferment only let it rise at room temp for a few hours.  It is easy to work with but never tastes near as good - generic flavor.  My recipe is not as scientific as what I read here so really couldn't put it down to a one pie formula.  Walter

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10300
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 09:55:42 PM »
Thanks guys for all your very good suggestions. I am going to follow the common wisdom here and drop the "same day" aspect to these flours and go with traditional ferments. No sense in wasting product if my end result is going to be 24hr+ fermentation's, right? I think I may play around with doing side by side cold vs counter risings.
Again, thanks so much and I am still most interested in any/all input on this new direction I'm going to take this.
Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6937
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2013, 06:06:01 AM »
Bob, if you're taking a Glutenboy approach (longer than 4 days), then I'd go with the All Trumps, as, like he pointed out, it stands up well to longer ferments.

If you're going with something 2 to 3 day-ish, my recommendation would be Occident.


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21642
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Flour score!! Need same day recipe help
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2013, 08:38:11 AM »
Bob,

I did use all of those flours you have access too and I think any of them would be good to try.

Good luck with your experiments.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!