Author Topic: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients  (Read 3229 times)

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Offline rym

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i've been reading a few topics on making a good tomato sauce. Is the conclusion i get to in the topic the right one? If I am able to get true DOP San Marzano peeled tomatoes, maybe a pinch of seasalt will suffice (after crushing by hand/potato masher). If I were to use other type of canned tomatoes though, it is advisable to add a blend of herbs.

Also, while i've read not to brend/process the DOP tomatoes, is it okay to do this with other types? I'm not trying to start a big discussion (i've already seen one). The only thing is that my previous sauce was a bit watery. Maybe just draining the sauce would be enough. Any advice?


Offline dellavecchia

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2013, 07:58:50 AM »
Rym - What type of pizza are you producing?

John

Offline rym

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2013, 08:16:27 AM »
NY Style (and will later probably venture out to americana / chicago / thick). When I'm out of flour I might try neapolitan with 00 flour.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2013, 09:21:36 AM »
i've been reading a few topics on making a good tomato sauce. Is the conclusion i get to in the topic the right one? If I am able to get true DOP San Marzano peeled tomatoes, maybe a pinch of seasalt will suffice (after crushing by hand/potato masher). If I were to use other type of canned tomatoes though, it is advisable to add a blend of herbs.

Also, while i've read not to brend/process the DOP tomatoes, is it okay to do this with other types? I'm not trying to start a big discussion (i've already seen one). The only thing is that my previous sauce was a bit watery. Maybe just draining the sauce would be enough. Any advice?

Like anything else, there are DOP San Marzano (SM) tomatoes that are great and there are DOP SM tomatoes that are terrible. There are no hard and fast rules for SM tomatoes that donít apply to other tomatoes. I almost never use SM tomatoes any more. I've found the Cento Italian (the ones in the 35oz can) to be consistently better than the SM brands I have readily available.

I run the whole 35oz can through a food mill with a coarse plate and generally add ~1tsp fine sea salt and somewhere between 0 and 1.5tsp sugar. For Neapolitan, I never add any spices to the sauce. IMO, spices in the sauce would destroy the balance of a Margherita, for example. I would add any spice needed (such as the bit of oregano I put on a pepperoni pie) to the individual pie on top of the sauce. For other styles such as Detroit, I might add a bit of oregano straight to the sauce Ė just enough to highlight Ė itís still about the tomato.

You can crush by hand, use a potato masher, or even a stick blender (be careful not to suck in too much air). Your choice depends on the final texture you want to achieve not the type of tomato you start with.  If you wanted it a little thicker let it strain some in a fine sieve after.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline rym

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 09:30:31 AM »
My problem is that I have a horrible choice in brands here. Basically there are two types of tomatoes I can choose from in my main supermarket. Heinz peeled and some no-brand tomatoes. As of yet I do not have a food mill, might buy this in the future. Thank you for your tip, I might drive past a few supermarkets on my way home from work today and see if I can find something which looks interesting. Can't wait to start this weekend :)

Edit: I guess I have to start trying out different types and seeing which ones taste best. The DOP are hard enough to get as-is (have to order them online and are 3.5 usd for 14.1 oz)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 09:32:21 AM by rym »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 09:30:50 AM »
I almost never use SM tomatoes any more. I've found the Cento Italian (the ones in the 35oz can) to be consistently better than the SM brands I have readily available.

I used these tomatoes on my last bake, and I have to admit they were embarrassingly good. At half the price of SM, they were equal to, if not better than, most of the DOP I buy on a regular basis as well.

John

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 09:45:20 AM »
My problem is that I have a horrible choice in brands here. Basically there are two types of tomatoes I can choose from in my main supermarket. Heinz peeled and some no-brand tomatoes. As of yet I do not have a food mill, might buy this in the future. Thank you for your tip, I might drive past a few supermarkets on my way home from work today and see if I can find something which looks interesting. Can't wait to start this weekend :)

Edit: I guess I have to start trying out different types and seeing which ones taste best. The DOP are hard enough to get as-is (have to order them online and are 3.5 usd for 14.1 oz)

Keep you eye out for Cento. I can't speak to the stores in your area, but almost every store around here stocks at least some of their products. I've noticed that stores don't always put them with the Heinz and other tomatoes however. Some stores have sections with groups of ethnic products, and I've seen the Cento products and other brands of tomatoes stocked in the Italian sections.
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Offline rym

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 09:46:14 AM »
Ahh thanks but I should have said that I am in The Netherlands, and we see about 1% of the brands you guys have over there in the USA :(

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 09:51:56 AM »
Ahh thanks but I should have said that I am in The Netherlands, and we see about 1% of the brands you guys have over there in the USA :(


But you have test tube hamburgers  :-D

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/business-tech/science/120220/netherlands-scientists-grow-meat-test-tube-burger
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Offline rym

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2013, 09:58:12 AM »
We have a lot I can assure you that! But when it comes to food (except for cheese I think ;) ) I would rather be in the United States :P

Oh and maybe beer..
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 10:05:33 AM by rym »


Offline mitchjg

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2013, 12:10:07 PM »
I used these tomatoes on my last bake, and I have to admit they were embarrassingly good. At half the price of SM, they were equal to, if not better than, most of the DOP I buy on a regular basis as well.

John

If I recall correctly, the ones in my local supermarket have a basil leaf in the can.  Is that the same or different than the ones you like?  Thx.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2013, 12:35:44 PM »
If I recall correctly, the ones in my local supermarket have a basil leaf in the can.  Is that the same or different than the ones you like?  Thx.

The Cento Italian, like every DOP San Marzano I've ever seen, have a basil leaf in the can.

Every now and then, you get a can of whatever brand without a leaf and in my experience, they are not as good.

I pull out the basil leaf before running the tomatoes through the food mill.
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Online Chicago Bob

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2013, 10:00:17 PM »
rym,
A NY style pizza doesn't normally use the expensive type of tomato's (san marzano,DOP,etc.) Crushed or ground product is typical and maybe you could mail order these from somewhere near where you are at.
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Offline Qarl

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2013, 10:15:58 PM »
I've been following Varasano's method.

http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm

With a typical can of Cento Certified, I place all the contents in a mesh strainer over a bowl.  This allows the watery liquid to drain off.

I hand process each tomato by getting the seeds, removing the top and core, and putting the flesh in a bowl. 

The seeds and remaining parts remain in the mesh stariner and continue to drain excess liquid.

When I am done processing the flesh, I take a silicone spatula and squeeze out the remaing goop through the mesh strainer and stick in the bowl with the processed flesh.

Then I had 1 tsp of sea salt, about 1 TBS of EVOO, and about 1/2 tsp of garlic powder and then lightly blend with an immersion blender.  Like Jeff says on it the site, it changes the flavor somewhat versus hand-crushing the tomatoes.  Cover with plastic wrap when finished.

Do this a minimum of 6 hours before making pizza.

Amazing sauce!

Offline grathan

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2013, 11:41:25 PM »
I would be surprised if your ideal pizza sauce came out of a can. Especially a can labeled tomatoes.

If it's watery then yeah draining would remove water. If it's lacking tomato flavor, then yeah, a different tomato brand might have more tomato flavor. If its spice flavor your after, then yeah your gonna need spices. Other flavors might be oily, vinegary, or perhaps tart (acidic).

I've only made my first pizza sauces this past month ( they weren't stellar). My thoughts on sauce:

-The sauce should match the other ingredients. It should compliment the dough flavor, as well as the cheese and topping. You can have a great sauce that blends good with olives toppings, but is kinda bland on a plain cheese pizza.

-Why is it that ready-made pizza sauce in a can is awful? Perhaps the key is fresh ingredients.. This leads me to believe that recipes that start with browning garlic and onions in a pan and using fresh herbs like basil and oregano would be better.

- my first attempt at sauce I hated. It really wasn't the sauces fault though because the cheese was awful. The dough was bad too. It never had a shot at being good because the pizza on a whole sucked. I would say sauce is a pretty minor ingredient in pizza. You could almost get away with having no sauce and if the rest of the pizza was great, then it would still be a great pizza unlike not having the other ingredients.

-I think I am gonna focus on making recipes that include dough, sauce, cheese, baking temp/surface etc... All the peticulars.

-If I am not sure what flavor sauce I am after I think of a commercial example of sauce I like and search these forums for a clone recipe.



« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 11:43:13 PM by grathan »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 11:45:38 PM »
What in the .... ???


 :-\
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Offline grathan

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 11:59:16 PM »
Oops, sorry. I should probably mention that I don't know what a NY style is, Neapolitan, or whatever it happens to be labeled. Pizza is still just pizza to me. Sauce, cheese , and dough. I hope to learn more as I go.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 12:08:54 AM »
Oops, sorry. I should probably mention that I don't know what a NY style is, Neapolitan, or whatever it happens to be labeled. Pizza is still just pizza to me. Sauce, cheese , and dough. I hope to learn more as I go.
grathan, please take a look at our glossary.....http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html
I hope this will help you. Also, not many here use a jar or can pre-made pizza "sauce", and not many "cook" a sauce(browning garlic/onions in a pan).
Good quality canned tomato's left uncooked with minimal spices(to allow the tomato taste to do the talking) is definitely the way to go.
Good luck and have fun! :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline grathan

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 12:39:48 AM »
Will do :-[


I've been following Varasano's method.

http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm

With a typical can of Cento Certified, I place all the contents in a mesh strainer over a bowl.  This allows the watery liquid to drain off.

I hand process each tomato by getting the seeds, removing the top and core, and putting the flesh in a bowl. 

The seeds and remaining parts remain in the mesh stariner and continue to drain excess liquid.

When I am done processing the flesh, I take a silicone spatula and squeeze out the remaing goop through the mesh strainer and stick in the bowl with the processed flesh.

Then I had 1 tsp of sea salt, about 1 TBS of EVOO, and about 1/2 tsp of garlic powder and then lightly blend with an immersion blender.  Like Jeff says on it the site, it changes the flavor somewhat versus hand-crushing the tomatoes.  Cover with plastic wrap when finished.

Do this a minimum of 6 hours before making pizza.

Amazing sauce!


Wow, what an informative link! Do you also follow the method of using a clean cycle on an electric oven to get high temps?

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: San Marzano DOP: Add (almost) nothing / Other tomatoes: Add ingredients
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2013, 12:47:29 AM »



 Do you also follow the method of using a clean cycle on an electric oven to get high temps?
grathan, you are cracking me up here dude...in a most good way.  :)
Your exuberance is quite admirable. But please, lets not try to burn the house down just yet...OK?  :chef:
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"


 

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