No Kneading Pan Pizza Dough???

[TomN]

A friend at work gave me this link for making Pan Pizza in a skillet. As I read the receipe, I noticed that they do NOT knead the dough in this receipe. I have always keaded the dough so this seems strange. Has anyone tried this before? Thanks.

The Article

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2013/01/the-pizza-lab-the-worlds-easiest-pizza-no-knead-no-stretch-pan-pizza.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

The Recipe

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2013/01/foolproof-pan-pizza-recipe.html

Does not seem like enough liquid either???

[The Dough Doctor]

Tom;
I've been using a very similar (almost identical) method for making pizza and bread doughs ever since I studied bread making practices in Romania almost 40-years ago. It works like a charm, and the 60 to 65% dough absorption is about right. We refer to the process as "biochemical gluten development". The only thing kneading or use of a mixer really accomplishes is faster gluten development, however faster gluten development goes bring some baggage in the form of a tighter, more springy dough that has to be addressed before the dough can be given its final shaping. I spent a good part of the Holidays this year at our son's home in Kansas City and during that time I made breakfast rolls, dinner breads, pizza and calzones all using this dough making process because it required so little of my time.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

[TomN]

Tom,

Thank you for the response. I really appreciate it.

TomN

[slybarman]

I saw this recipe on serious eats as well. I have been making the pizza hut pan pizza clone recipe from this site lately and I am curious to try this and see how it compares.

[Chi_Guy]

I recently used Kenji's no-knead recipe to make pan pizza which came out pretty good.  Check out my post in this thread for details:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23064.0.html

I was so intrigued with the no-knead method that I used for one of my NY style pies using a Lehmann recipe dough.  Posted about that today:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23402.msg238905.html#new

From my limited experience this method results in a more breadlike product which would make it a very good dough for thick pizzas. 

[TomN]

Chi_Guy,

Thanks for the comments and for posting the links.

TomN

[kramer73]

so this could be used for a sicilian or detroit style?  It seems somewhat similar. 

[grathan]

I ate a no-knead dough today and the dough was just plain awful. One difference was I fermented in the fridge for 2 days vs. overnight on the counter so perhaps the gluten weave eating enzymes are not active at colder temperatures? I don't know, but I am gonna stay away from no-kneads for a while.

[TomN]

Grathan,

I wonder what went wrong in the dough making process to cause you to say that it was just plain awful? After all, in one of the above responses, Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor, said that he uses this method very often to save time and it works like a charm.

TomN

[grathan]

Yes, very puzzling indeed because no Knead recipes are fairly common with people singing their praises. The dough was actually 2 doughs in 1 pan with 1 half being high gluten sir lancelot and the other using an all purpose and even though the color of the dough made each side obvious before baking, the whole pie was awful and I couldn't tell which side was which after baking.


My impressions are pretty similar to Chi_guy's above with a sour dough type flavor even though I just used dried active yeast and a fairly short and cold fermentation. The dough also seemed crumbly and one piece actually broke in half when lifted.

[Chi_Guy]

@grathan - sorry to hear about your bad experience.  I don't think putting it in the fridge would have ruined it because cold fermented no-knead bread actually tastes much better.  When I made pan pizza using a no-knead dough I too let it cold ferment for a couple of days and it tasted good.

I do know that the original no-knead bread recipe published by the NY Times was criticized for being somewhat bland and Jim Lahey himself admitted that the recipe needed more salt.  On Serious Eats, they showed an improved no-knead technique that upped the salt and added 3-5 day cold ferment.

Can you tell a little more about the recipe you used and technique?  That would help troubleshoot what might have gone wrong.  I used all bread flour and IDY in mine and let it rise covered for 24 hours.  One of them I baked right away after letting it proof for another 2 hours and cold fermented the other.  Both turned out fine.

[grathan]

Thanks chi-guy. It was a similar recipe as above for both flours. %65 water, 2t oil, 0.5t salt, packet yeast. Mix with spoon until all flour is wet.

It more than doubled in size covered in fridge 2 days. Spread into cast iron pan 0.5" thick let sit @125*f for an hour. Preheat oven 550, preheated pan to 250 on stovetop(bottom slightly browned). Under broiler on high setting maybe 5 minutes.

I've tried a few recipies no knead now with different baking and fermenting techniques. I have even spotted crumb shots on this forum where I knew it was no knead before even reading so.