Author Topic: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?  (Read 3857 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Morgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Finland
Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« on: January 26, 2013, 08:09:45 AM »
This in kinda embarrassing, but i have to be honest and tell you that i just cant make a better pizza in home than buying it straight from the supermarket.
Its also little pit of depressing when you think all the effort it takes to make the dough and everything. Maybe i just need a wfo or maybe not...

The frozen pizza what im talking about is made in Italy and the dough is just from the other planet compared to self made dough. Its has moisture and crispy bottom, but very soft inside. Believe it or not, but i have eaten worse pizzas in Italy than this margherita straight from the freezer.
Im really getting pissed off because its just so good, you could eat just the dough without toppings because it is just so damm...

Price is 3.80euros and converted to dollars 5$ and you get 2x 300gr margheritas whit this price, its just a damm good deal for this kind of quality.
Im shure there is many laughing right now, but this is the truth what comes to the taste of a dough.

It has been pre-baked in smoking hot stoneoven reads in the side of the packet.

I dont think you have the same pizza available in US, but is there anybody who has been troubled with similar issue ?

I have to take pictures of the pizza some day and add them in here.





« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 08:14:57 AM by Morgan »


Offline dellavecchia

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2628
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 09:46:17 AM »
Morgan - The main reason people come to this forum is to learn how to make pizza at home that is miles away better than pre-packaged, frozen offerings from the supermarket. I don't think you will be able to make Neapolitan pizza right off the bat that is better than your pre-made one, especially since you don't have a WFO, but you can definitely make something better in another style. Take a look at the other boards and have some fun figuring out the process. Post questions, and we will answer.

John
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 02:35:34 PM by dellavecchia »

Offline Morgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Finland
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2013, 11:19:39 AM »
Morgen - The main reason people come to this forum is to learn how to make pizza at home that is miles away better than pre-packaged, frozen offerings from the supermarket.

John

I know this and i have made lots of pizza, but still this frozen pizza from Italy beats my pizzas 6-0. It is really all about the dough because there is no
toppings other than tomatosauce and mozzarella on margherita. I have to make some kind of wfo on summer and see how it works out.

I could offcourse lie and tell that its not so good, but the reality is that you cant find better tasting dough even from pizzerias, only in Italy
i have tasted better ones straight from wfo.

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1872
  • Age: 60
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2013, 02:06:52 PM »
morgan,you are new on this forum. there is enough information here to help you make a pie that will make that frozen pizza unacceptable.  guaranteed!!! find a style make it and ask lots of questions.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11615
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2013, 04:58:42 PM »
It is all but impossible to bake a great Neapolitan Margherita in a home oven, and even with a WFO, it is not guaranteed nor does it come easy when it does. I know how frustrating it can be if this is your goal.

the reality is that you cant find better tasting dough even from pizzerias, only in Italy i have tasted better ones straight from wfo.

I don't know about the pizzerias you've been to, but there are any number of people on this forum that can put that frozen pizza to shame no matter how good you think it is. You can too, but probably not without a good bit of learning and effort. The people here are happy to help you get there.

Tell us about the dough you've made in the past. Ingredients and work-flow (how you mix it, how long it ferments, etc).
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline thezaman

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1872
  • Age: 60
  • Location: ohio
  • I Love Pizza!
    • lorenzos pizza
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2013, 05:28:01 PM »
 yes morgan, lets have some fun with this.tell us what type of flour, tomatoes, and cheese you have available  to you in Finland.your ovens maximum temperature would make a difference in you dough make up.

Offline Morgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Finland
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2013, 06:00:55 PM »
yes morgan, lets have some fun with this.tell us what type of flour, tomatoes, and cheese you have available  to you in Finland.your ovens maximum temperature would make a difference in you dough make up.



Fine by me ;D Lately i have been using Alimenti dallari farina tipo 00 flours and last time i mixed some durum flours with it. I can not make the tipo00 dough brown without mixing durum/sugar. San marzano tomatoes and organic crushed Italian tomatoes, different mozzarellas from Italy and also basic domestic cheeses. Maximum temp around 530f.

This was my first mixing experiment with tipo&durum: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23057.0.html

After that test im shure that 65% hydration and home oven is not the best match.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 06:02:29 PM by Morgan »

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6636
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 06:24:27 PM »
Morgan, no more messing with 00 or durum. Neither is suitable for your oven setup.

The very first thing you need to do is track down hiivaleipäjauho flour.

This forum post talks about it being 13% protein (13g/100g)

http://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29012#p261600

But this page here, lists a product with 12%

http://fromfinland.fi/fi/sunnuntai-hiiva-leipa-jauho.html

12% isn't bad, but 13% would be better (or something in between).

Is your oven gas or electric? If gas, is the broiler in the top of the main compartment or is it in a separate drawer below? Have you tested the 530F peak temp with an infrared thermometer? What are the dimensions of your oven shelf?

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11615
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2013, 06:36:44 PM »
Here are two threads you should read. Short of making dangerous modifications to your oven, this is probably your best bet to approximate a WFO.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10024.0.html
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11654.0.html
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Morgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Finland
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2013, 07:24:12 PM »
Morgan, no more messing with 00 or durum. Neither is suitable for your oven setup.

The very first thing you need to do is track down hiivaleipäjauho flour.

This forum post talks about it being 13% protein (13g/100g)


http://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29012#p261600

But this page here, lists a product with 12%

http://fromfinland.fi/fi/sunnuntai-hiiva-leipa-jauho.html

12% isn't bad, but 13% would be better (or something in between).

Is your oven gas or electric? If gas, is the broiler in the top of the main compartment or is it in a separate drawer below? Have you tested the 530F peak temp with an infrared thermometer? What are the dimensions of your oven shelf?


I have hiivaleipäjauho, but have not tested it yet, it has 14% protein. Electric oven and i dont have ir meter, but maybe i have to get one.
Oven shelf is about 380x380mm.


Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6636
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2013, 08:32:50 PM »
Morgan, I'm not loving that oven dimension (~15" square), but, if that's what you've got, we'll make it work.

I wouldn't normally ask this, but, because your oven is so small, is there any chance you know that wattage of your oven?  Do you have a brand and model #?

Does this oven have a convection fan feature?

Could you list the ingredients for the hiivaleipäjauho?  From what I've read on Finnish flour, 14% feels a little high.

Also, could you take a photo of the broiler in the top of your oven?


Offline Morgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Finland
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2013, 10:14:57 AM »
Morgan, I'm not loving that oven dimension (~15" square), but, if that's what you've got, we'll make it work.

I wouldn't normally ask this, but, because your oven is so small, is there any chance you know that wattage of your oven?  Do you have a brand and model #?

Does this oven have a convection fan feature?

Could you list the ingredients for the hiivaleipäjauho?  From what I've read on Finnish flour, 14% feels a little high.

Also, could you take a photo of the broiler in the top of your oven?


Oven plate which comes with the oven is measured 425x350mm, this is totally normal size oven :-D
No convection fan feature in this model that is Husqvarna qcb830w.

Rainbow hiivaleipäjauho contents.

Ravintosisältö/100 g:

Energiaa    1500 kJ/360 kcal
Proteiinia/protein    14 g
Hiilihydraattia/carbs   66 g
Rasvaa/fat    2,9 g


Photo of the top broiler, outer section when normally heated and inside is grill feature if i remember right.


Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6636
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2013, 06:55:32 PM »
Morgan, does the 'oven plate' go inside the oven?  If so, then the oven shelf has to be at least 425x350mm, right?

Forgive me my cultural oven size bias :)  Here in the U.S.,  A 350mm/15" deep oven doesn't exist.  I've never seen smaller than 16- and 16s are very rare.

Good news, that looks like a pretty formidable broiler- possibly even formidable enough to do Neapolitan. Bad news- the 14% protein flour won't work for that. If you're going to shoot for Neapolitan, then you'll need a 12-13% protein flour. Read through the threads that Craig posted.

Does the Rainbow hiivaleipäjauho list ingredients?  It would read something like "Wheat flour, xxxx, xxxx," in Finnish, obviously  :)

Offline Morgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Finland
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2013, 05:02:28 AM »
Morgan, does the 'oven plate' go inside the oven?  If so, then the oven shelf has to be at least 425x350mm, right?

Forgive me my cultural oven size bias :)  Here in the U.S.,  A 350mm/15" deep oven doesn't exist.  I've never seen smaller than 16- and 16s are very rare.

Good news, that looks like a pretty formidable broiler- possibly even formidable enough to do Neapolitan. Bad news- the 14% protein flour won't work for that. If you're going to shoot for Neapolitan, then you'll need a 12-13% protein flour. Read through the threads that Craig posted.

Does the Rainbow hiivaleipäjauho list ingredients?  It would read something like "Wheat flour, xxxx, xxxx," in Finnish, obviously  :)

Yes it goes inside the oven, i measured the oven and it is possible to use plate that is 425x380mm, not shure would it fit.
The plate which comes with the oven does not go all the way to the back maybe leaves a +1" gap.

Thats just funny :-D

Yes there is something on the back, it also has some e300 ascorbin acid. I readed that hiivaleipäjauho is more coarse than normal wheat flour.

Puolikarkea hiivaleipäjauho jauhetaan vehnänjyvän kuorta lähinnä olevasta ytimen osasta. Se sopii leipien, sämpylöiden, piirakoiden ja pizzapohjien leivontaan.

Transleted by google:

Semi-coarse side of leavened bread, flour milling wheat grain crust closest to the core components. It is suitable for breads, rolls, pies and pizza bases for baking.


« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 05:12:22 AM by Morgan »

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6636
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2013, 11:01:17 AM »
Morgan, is the flour white or cream colored? Any specs of bran?

Are there any ingredients other than wheat flour and ascorbic acid, and, if so, what are they?


Offline Morgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Finland
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2013, 12:15:50 PM »
Compared to tipo00 this is much more cream colored and not so white. Im not sure what you mean by bran ?
It only contains wheat and e300 nothing else.

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6636
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2013, 04:45:40 PM »
Are there any brown specs in the flour or pieces of anything that isn't finely powdered?

I'm almost to the point where I can give you more concrete recommendations for moving forward, but, for now, we have just a little more fact finding to do.

Would it be possible for you to take a photo of the frozen pizza that you like?  I can see the picture on the box, but a shot of the real product, after baking, would be a huge help.  We need three photos:

1. The top of the pizza
2. A shot of the cross section/crumb of a slice
3. A shot of the bottom of the pizza (aka an 'upskirt')


Offline Morgan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Finland
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2013, 05:37:56 PM »
Are there any brown specs in the flour or pieces of anything that isn't finely powdered?

I'm almost to the point where I can give you more concrete recommendations for moving forward, but, for now, we have just a little more fact finding to do.


I did not noticed anything other than fine powder (tipo 00 is finer), but i will look at it again tomorrow. I also have sämpyläjauho (bun flour) it is 75% wheat and unknown % of oat, rye and barley + e300. This flour has protein 13gr/100gr, carbs 70gr/100gr, fibers 3gr/100gr i never used it for pizza, but could try it for shure.

Pics of the great tasting market pie coming later this week :P
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 05:41:39 PM by Morgan »

Offline Pizzaboyo

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 242
  • Location: Ireland
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2013, 06:15:01 PM »
Here is my tuppence worth, the broiler/grill looks similar to mine and the grill has three settings low,med,high and the inner element is for low and medium and they both heat on the high setting see post 111 here http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22352.60.html
An Irishman is never drunk as long as he can hold onto one blade of grass and not fall off the face of the earth.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11615
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: Best (supermarket bought) pizza ?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2013, 10:09:36 AM »

I did not noticed anything other than fine powder (tipo 00 is finer), but i will look at it again tomorrow. I also have sämpyläjauho (bun flour) it is 75% wheat and unknown % of oat, rye and barley + e300. This flour has protein 13gr/100gr, carbs 70gr/100gr, fibers 3gr/100gr i never used it for pizza, but could try it for shure.

Pics of the great tasting market pie coming later this week :P

FWIW, e300 is ascorbic acid (vitamin C).
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.