Multigrain dough losing elasticity.

[michaelbmullen1]

Hi.  I am making frozen buns for use in a wood fired pizzaria.  I am making two types: plain and multigrain.  The plain balls are working fine, however, my customer tells me that the multigrain is tearing on him. 

Here is my formulation:
60# unbleached golden tiger.
20# fine whole wheat flour
16# dry multigrain mixture from Purato's
51# Water
4# Pizza Base
1.7# idy

I am mixing on a 140 QT Hobart as follows:
Dry ingredients and base mix for 2 minutes on low, adding water and mixing on speed 2 for 8 more minutes, adding 1# of water about halfway through to keep the hook from bogging down. 
Am I making it to dry?  My customer actually is telling my he thinks it is to wet.  Perhaps I should add the grains later in the mix to allow more gluten development.
Any help would be appreciated.

[norma427]

michaelbmullen,

I don’t know if this thread will help you, but I did post about working with whole grain flours http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17172.0.html

Norma

[michaelbmullen1]

Thanks Norma.  I have read through the information in the links.  I am wondering if I should add straight wheat gluten. If I do, what is the range of quantity I should use?

[norma427]

I am wondering if I should add straight wheat gluten. If I do, what is the range of quantity I should use?

Michael,

I am not experienced in using whole grains flours and only tried them a few times in different formulations, so I really wouldn’t be the person to advise you very well.  What I gather though is using a relatively low inclusion of about 25 to 30% traditional whole-grain in a inclusion in a formulation does require some changes.  I think the Ultragrain flour doesn’t require as many inclusions when using 25 to 30 % of the flour weight.   I also think there needs to be more water added to any formulation with whole wheat grain flours.  They also might require less mixing and might have and might have lower tolerance to over mixing.  In the one article I referenced, it says that breads made with whole grain flours might need gluten added and oxidation agents.  I sure don’t know what oxidation agents are.  Bake time and temperatures might also need to be adjusted.  I am not sure how much straight wheat gluten you should try.  Maybe if you post under ask the dough doctor Tom Lehmann he might be able to help you better.

Norma

[michaelbmullen1]

Thanks Norma.  Didn't I post under ask the dough doctor?

[mkevenson]

Thanks Norma.  Didn't I post under ask the dough doctor?

RESPECT!!!!!!!!!

Mark

[michaelbmullen1]

Didn't mean to be disrepectful.  Just asking a question.  Sorry Norma, if I offended. And I do appreciate your time and effort in responding.

[Pete-zza]

Michael,

In parallel with your post here, you might also want to register over at the PMQ Think Tank forum, at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewforum.php?f=6, where professionals visit. Tom Lehmann is a Moderator there and is active on that forum.

It frequently happens that members on this forum, and at the PMQTT forum as well, will reply to posts directed specifically to Tom before he has had a chance to see them. Tom has a full-time job at the AIB with a fairly heavy travel schedule, including participating at pizza shows and events, and writes for both PMQ and Pizza Today, as well as participating on the PMQTT forum and this one, that he doesn't always have time to respond to every question posed to him.

While at the PMQTT forum, you might also use their search engine. I know that Tom has addressed the matter of using whole grains and whole wheat flour for making pizza dough. My recollection is that he has spoken about using soakers for such flours. Tom is also well versed in frozen dough preparation. You might find references to relevant posts by using the PMQTT search function.

Peter

[norma427]

Thanks Norma.  Didn't I post under ask the dough doctor?

Michael,

Lol, you did!  I am no dough doctor.

Norma