Author Topic: Working out some better dough, better sauce  (Read 3873 times)

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Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2013, 09:09:58 PM »
Well, I had some technical flaws affecting tonight's attempts.

First, the good:

Tonight's dough was aged 4 days, and it's definitely getting better. The refrigerated dough is actually rising better while in the fridge (albeit slowly) than my last batch. I'm sure this is because I used a bit more yeast this time. Now that I have the ability to accurately measure my yeast, I'm hoping this will become more consistent. The most obvious change in the finished pie is the appearance of my beloved crust bubbles! Flavor was better  - seemed more developed than the 2-day dough, which seemed a bit more bland to me. While removing one of the dough balls from its container tonight, a small piece of dough ended up on my hand, so I gave it a taste. I was surprised how much flavor it had  - I could barely detect that raw flour flavor that freshly made dough has. It was quite sweet, and a little tangy.

The bad:

Screw-ups on my part. The first pie, a Margherita, was a bit off target when I slid it onto the baking tiles, resulting part of the edge falling off the tile. I was able to save it (mostely), but this resulted in me spending too much of the precious baking time with the oven door open while I futzed with the positioning of the pizza. Hard to say how much of an impact it had, but I'm sure all that escaping heat wasn't a good thing.

I messed up the stretch with the second pizza. I over-stretched the center in stead of focusing more on the edges. This used to be a common problem for me, but have done a much better job more recently. Except this time. My pizza skin ended up being very close to one big window pane, surrounded by a relatively thick edge crust. Now, I like a really thin bottom crust, but this was a bit ridiculous! I don't know how I manged to finish it without any serious tears. End result was not terrible, but the bottom crust had no structure... totally floppy, and the only real texture was from the cheese.

The good thing about this hobby? Even the mistakes tend to be delicious!  :D

1 dough ball left. This one is going to stay in the fridge until either Saturday (day 6) or Sunday (day 7).

__Jason


Online norma427

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2013, 09:13:49 PM »
Jason,

Your pies look very tasty!  I really like your open crumb shot.

Norma
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Offline PetersPizza

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2013, 09:15:16 PM »
Very nice pies! 

-Peter

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2013, 09:19:50 PM »
Thanks!

I really am picking nits at this point. i remember how my pizzas were turning out a few years ago, and now, even my screw-ups are better than that!  :P

Oh, one other good thing tonight: prior to putting in the pepperoni pizza, I measured my baking tiles at just over 600. I think this may be the hottest I've ever gotten my indoor oven. It's a gas oven, with the broiler down below. I don't know if it has an overheat safety cut-off or not, so I'm not sure how high it will really go. The dial goes to 550, and then broil. I pre-heat up to 550 and then turn it to "broil" shortly before I get ready to put the pizza in. I'm afraid of it going *too* high - its not a self-cleaning oven, so I'm not sure how well it will hold up to extreme temps. I guess I won't push it... I should be happy it's even capable of 550+, I guess.

OOOOooooh.... I just got word today that a friend of mine scored a couple of custom soapstone baking tiles too! One for himself, and one for me! I can't wait to get that home and do some experimenting with that. Currently, I'm using unglazed quarry tiles (the terra cotta looking ones).

__Jason

Offline bfguilford

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2013, 10:33:56 PM »
Jason: The top browning and crumb look good on these. I think you'll like the soapstone tiles (especially if they are from M. Texeira in NJ) and your oven gets to 600. You may even need to lower the temperature a bit to even out the top/bottom browning, and use broiler. I think you'll find the oven spring gets quite a bit better.

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2013, 11:11:25 PM »
I can't wait to to give the soapstone a try. Just need to find the time to meet up with my friend to get it. I believe it is 5/8" slab from these folks in Perkasie, PA: http://bcsoapstone.com/

__Jason

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2013, 03:28:04 PM »
Well, here's the last one from this batch - this one is a 6 day old dough.

Very simple this time - mozzarella with a bit of cheddar. Gotta say, *not* my favorite topping combination. I've never put cheddar on a home-baked pizza before, and it reminded me too much of high school cafeteria pizza (but with a much better crust!). Probably won't do this again... I'd rather just have 100% mozzarella.

Also this time, I further pushed the limits of what I thought my oven can do. I measured the baking surface at 640 just prior to putting the pizza in. Total bake time was 4:45.

Interestingly, I did not get the big golden crust bubbles that I was expecting out of this older dough. There must be another factor, besides dough age, that causes those bubbles that I'm not taking into account. Perhaps dough temperature? This dough sat out for a full 2 hours before shaping, and I measured it at ~75 before stretching it out. I'm not complaining though - I was still very happy with this crust! The flavor was great, and the crumb had a nice texture. The spotting on the bottom of the crust was very good, no doubt helped by the extra hot tiles.

__Jason

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2013, 03:53:58 PM »
BTW, I'm sold on using my juicer to make sauce. This juicer is one of the slow (or, "masticating") juicers, so I'm not sure how it would work with other types. The combination of running the tomatoes through the course screen and then using a fine strainer to eliminate some excess water, results in really great consistency. And it's a fairly quick process too.

The Cento whole tomatoes had a pretty good yield, too. I think I'm going to try and track down some of the Cento D.O.P. and see how those are.

__Jason

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2013, 05:41:24 PM »
Cento doesn't make DOP tomatoes anymore. You might still find some old cans. I see them from time to time. If not, the Cento "certified" are supposed to be the same (without Cento paying for the DOP certification) according to Cento.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2013, 06:13:20 PM »

Also this time, I further pushed the limits of what I thought my oven can do. I measured the baking surface at 640 just prior to putting the pizza in. Total bake time was 4:45.

Interestingly, I did not get the big golden crust bubbles that I was expecting out of this older dough...

__Jason

Really great bake time and end results. I love the crumb. Are you wanting more volume/bigger voids, or did you want more coloring on the crust? As it stands right now that is a great looking NY style pie.

John


Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2013, 06:51:43 PM »
Cento doesn't make DOP tomatoes anymore. You might still find some old cans. I see them from time to time. If not, the Cento "certified" are supposed to be the same (without Cento paying for the DOP certification) according to Cento.

Ah, thanks - good to know. for some reason, I was thinking it was the other way around - they got rid of "certified" for "DOP". I'll keep an eye out for the certified ones.

Really great bake time and end results. I love the crumb. Are you wanting more volume/bigger voids, or did you want more coloring on the crust? As it stands right now that is a great looking NY style pie.

I'm pretty happy with the crust coloring. I've just always been a fan of those big, crispy crust bubbles that appear on the surface occasionally. If you check the photos of the pepperoni pizza I posted upthread, you can see a few of them showing up on that one. I'm just not sure how to produce them consistently. I know its funny... some people go through great pains to *avoid* such bubbles, but I like 'em. If I have a slice with a bubble, I always save that bite for last - it's the most flavorful!

__Jason

Offline mvd

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2013, 07:21:53 PM »
Quote
I know its funny... some people go through great pains to *avoid* such bubbles, but I like 'em.

Those people don't know what they are talking about!

Your pies are looking great. I don't have a juicer like you do, but I'll at least try straining the tomatoes next time. This has been a very informative thread!
Mike

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2013, 07:50:32 PM »
Those people don't know what they are talking about!

Your pies are looking great. I don't have a juicer like you do, but I'll at least try straining the tomatoes next time. This has been a very informative thread!

Glad you find the thread useful! I've gotten some great info from this forum over the years, and I'm glad I have an opportunity to share as well.

Re: the juicer - I did find this thread on here that talks about using a food mill in pretty much the same way I use my juicer. In fact, this may be where I got the idea to try straining the water out of my sauce. My method looks almost exactly like this, except for the equipment used: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15607.0.html (note method #2).

If you don't want to shell out for a juicer, the food mill looks like an awesome way to go.

__Jason
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 07:52:15 PM by GuzziJason »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2013, 06:59:22 AM »
If you check the photos of the pepperoni pizza I posted upthread, you can see a few of them showing up on that one. I'm just not sure how to produce them consistently.

Jason - To get the crispy, blistered crust you see posted on the pepperoni pie, try using the dough right from the fridge or within 20 minutes of it being out.

John

Offline bfguilford

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2013, 10:30:38 AM »
Jason - To get the crispy, blistered crust you see posted on the pepperoni pie, try using the dough right from the fridge or within 20 minutes of it being out.

John

John: Won't that make it difficult to stretch? I find that cold dough is hard to keep from really snapping back on me.

Jason: Those pies are looking good.

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2013, 11:03:16 AM »
My dough is rather slack @ 63% hydration. The colder stretch might not be a problem - I'll give it a go next time around.

Thanks!

__Jason

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2013, 11:33:21 AM »
Screw-ups on my part. The first pie, a Margherita, was a bit off target when I slid it onto the baking tiles, resulting part of the edge falling off the tile.

Those pizzas really look great, GJ.  Making me hungry!  I remember when I first started making pizza (a really long time ago) and I was using about six ceramic tiles on a rack in my oven, and I launched the pizza and somehow parted the tiles, resulting in a Mariana Trench right in the middle of my pizza. I was so mad.  Anyway, things got easier when I bought a big baking stone. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2013, 10:10:44 PM »
Time for the next round of experimentation. This time, following suggestions, I started off with a much colder dough in an attempt for more crust bubbles. 20 minutes out of the fridge rather than the 2 hours I have been using. Not a dramatic difference so far, but this was still relatively young dough (3 days in the fridge).

Still, flavor and texture were quite nice. I was worried, because time constraints only allowed me to ferment my poolish for about 1/2 the time that I normally give it.

I've got 2 more dough balls sitting in the fridge, so perhaps on Friday I'll give it another go and see how it works colder *and* older   ;)

Tonight's pies were: 1) fresh mozzarella, chopped roasted/marinated tomatoes, spicy soppressata. And 2) baby arugula and prosciutto (topped after removing from oven)

__Jason

Online norma427

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2013, 10:14:27 PM »
Jason,

Those are some great looking pizzas!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2013, 10:37:43 PM »
Thanks, Norma. I love the way the heat coming off just kind of melts the prosciutto  ;)
Sadly, I didn't have time to hit my normal source for good prosciutto (DiBruno Bros here in Philly), and had to settle for a packaged version from Whole Foods, which wasn't nearly as good as what I normally get. Still, not too bad, though...

__Jason


 

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