Author Topic: Working out some better dough, better sauce  (Read 4685 times)

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Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2013, 11:11:25 PM »
I can't wait to to give the soapstone a try. Just need to find the time to meet up with my friend to get it. I believe it is 5/8" slab from these folks in Perkasie, PA: http://bcsoapstone.com/

__Jason


Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2013, 03:28:04 PM »
Well, here's the last one from this batch - this one is a 6 day old dough.

Very simple this time - mozzarella with a bit of cheddar. Gotta say, *not* my favorite topping combination. I've never put cheddar on a home-baked pizza before, and it reminded me too much of high school cafeteria pizza (but with a much better crust!). Probably won't do this again... I'd rather just have 100% mozzarella.

Also this time, I further pushed the limits of what I thought my oven can do. I measured the baking surface at 640 just prior to putting the pizza in. Total bake time was 4:45.

Interestingly, I did not get the big golden crust bubbles that I was expecting out of this older dough. There must be another factor, besides dough age, that causes those bubbles that I'm not taking into account. Perhaps dough temperature? This dough sat out for a full 2 hours before shaping, and I measured it at ~75 before stretching it out. I'm not complaining though - I was still very happy with this crust! The flavor was great, and the crumb had a nice texture. The spotting on the bottom of the crust was very good, no doubt helped by the extra hot tiles.

__Jason

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2013, 03:53:58 PM »
BTW, I'm sold on using my juicer to make sauce. This juicer is one of the slow (or, "masticating") juicers, so I'm not sure how it would work with other types. The combination of running the tomatoes through the course screen and then using a fine strainer to eliminate some excess water, results in really great consistency. And it's a fairly quick process too.

The Cento whole tomatoes had a pretty good yield, too. I think I'm going to try and track down some of the Cento D.O.P. and see how those are.

__Jason

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2013, 05:41:24 PM »
Cento doesn't make DOP tomatoes anymore. You might still find some old cans. I see them from time to time. If not, the Cento "certified" are supposed to be the same (without Cento paying for the DOP certification) according to Cento.
Pizza is not bread. Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2013, 06:13:20 PM »

Also this time, I further pushed the limits of what I thought my oven can do. I measured the baking surface at 640 just prior to putting the pizza in. Total bake time was 4:45.

Interestingly, I did not get the big golden crust bubbles that I was expecting out of this older dough...

__Jason

Really great bake time and end results. I love the crumb. Are you wanting more volume/bigger voids, or did you want more coloring on the crust? As it stands right now that is a great looking NY style pie.

John

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2013, 06:51:43 PM »
Cento doesn't make DOP tomatoes anymore. You might still find some old cans. I see them from time to time. If not, the Cento "certified" are supposed to be the same (without Cento paying for the DOP certification) according to Cento.

Ah, thanks - good to know. for some reason, I was thinking it was the other way around - they got rid of "certified" for "DOP". I'll keep an eye out for the certified ones.

Really great bake time and end results. I love the crumb. Are you wanting more volume/bigger voids, or did you want more coloring on the crust? As it stands right now that is a great looking NY style pie.

I'm pretty happy with the crust coloring. I've just always been a fan of those big, crispy crust bubbles that appear on the surface occasionally. If you check the photos of the pepperoni pizza I posted upthread, you can see a few of them showing up on that one. I'm just not sure how to produce them consistently. I know its funny... some people go through great pains to *avoid* such bubbles, but I like 'em. If I have a slice with a bubble, I always save that bite for last - it's the most flavorful!

__Jason

Offline mvd

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2013, 07:21:53 PM »
Quote
I know its funny... some people go through great pains to *avoid* such bubbles, but I like 'em.

Those people don't know what they are talking about!

Your pies are looking great. I don't have a juicer like you do, but I'll at least try straining the tomatoes next time. This has been a very informative thread!
Mike

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2013, 07:50:32 PM »
Those people don't know what they are talking about!

Your pies are looking great. I don't have a juicer like you do, but I'll at least try straining the tomatoes next time. This has been a very informative thread!

Glad you find the thread useful! I've gotten some great info from this forum over the years, and I'm glad I have an opportunity to share as well.

Re: the juicer - I did find this thread on here that talks about using a food mill in pretty much the same way I use my juicer. In fact, this may be where I got the idea to try straining the water out of my sauce. My method looks almost exactly like this, except for the equipment used: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,15607.0.html (note method #2).

If you don't want to shell out for a juicer, the food mill looks like an awesome way to go.

__Jason
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 07:52:15 PM by GuzziJason »

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2013, 06:59:22 AM »
If you check the photos of the pepperoni pizza I posted upthread, you can see a few of them showing up on that one. I'm just not sure how to produce them consistently.

Jason - To get the crispy, blistered crust you see posted on the pepperoni pie, try using the dough right from the fridge or within 20 minutes of it being out.

John


Offline bfguilford

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2013, 10:30:38 AM »
Jason - To get the crispy, blistered crust you see posted on the pepperoni pie, try using the dough right from the fridge or within 20 minutes of it being out.

John

John: Won't that make it difficult to stretch? I find that cold dough is hard to keep from really snapping back on me.

Jason: Those pies are looking good.

Barry
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Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2013, 11:03:16 AM »
My dough is rather slack @ 63% hydration. The colder stretch might not be a problem - I'll give it a go next time around.

Thanks!

__Jason

Online tinroofrusted

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2013, 11:33:21 AM »
Screw-ups on my part. The first pie, a Margherita, was a bit off target when I slid it onto the baking tiles, resulting part of the edge falling off the tile.

Those pizzas really look great, GJ.  Making me hungry!  I remember when I first started making pizza (a really long time ago) and I was using about six ceramic tiles on a rack in my oven, and I launched the pizza and somehow parted the tiles, resulting in a Mariana Trench right in the middle of my pizza. I was so mad.  Anyway, things got easier when I bought a big baking stone. 

Regards,

TinRoof

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2013, 10:10:44 PM »
Time for the next round of experimentation. This time, following suggestions, I started off with a much colder dough in an attempt for more crust bubbles. 20 minutes out of the fridge rather than the 2 hours I have been using. Not a dramatic difference so far, but this was still relatively young dough (3 days in the fridge).

Still, flavor and texture were quite nice. I was worried, because time constraints only allowed me to ferment my poolish for about 1/2 the time that I normally give it.

I've got 2 more dough balls sitting in the fridge, so perhaps on Friday I'll give it another go and see how it works colder *and* older   ;)

Tonight's pies were: 1) fresh mozzarella, chopped roasted/marinated tomatoes, spicy soppressata. And 2) baby arugula and prosciutto (topped after removing from oven)

__Jason

Online norma427

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2013, 10:14:27 PM »
Jason,

Those are some great looking pizzas!

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2013, 10:37:43 PM »
Thanks, Norma. I love the way the heat coming off just kind of melts the prosciutto  ;)
Sadly, I didn't have time to hit my normal source for good prosciutto (DiBruno Bros here in Philly), and had to settle for a packaged version from Whole Foods, which wasn't nearly as good as what I normally get. Still, not too bad, though...

__Jason

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2013, 10:46:19 PM »
Jason,

Those are some great looking pizzas!

Norma
Yes, your pies are looking beautiful Jason.
Good to hear you were able to open the cooler 20 min. dough....maybe try one straight outta the koolah?  :)
Also, you mentioned earlier of not being impressed with the cheddar/mozz mix...have you ever tried Gouda or Provolone instead of the Ched.? Asiago(25-30%) gives a nice kick too that you may also like.
Great work man...I enjoy your attention to detail.

Bob
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Online norma427

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2013, 10:29:13 AM »


I love the way the heat coming off just kind of melts the prosciutto  ;)
Sadly, I didn't have time to hit my normal source for good prosciutto (DiBruno Bros here in Philly), and had to settle for a packaged version from Whole Foods, which wasn't nearly as good as what I normally get. Still, not too bad, though...

__Jason

Jason,

I have been to DiBruno Bros in Philly a couple of times and do know how good their prosciutto is.  I love the Italian Market in Philly.  The prosciutto on your pie looks very good even if you purchased it from Whole Foods.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!


Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2013, 08:30:38 PM »
Well, that was interesting! The science experiment continues...

I had two dough balls in the fridge yet (5 days old). My plan tonight was to make a kick-azz clam pie (with bacon!), and then leave the fourth dough ball for another full week, as I'm leaving town for a ski trip.

Things started out so well, but quickly went off the rails!

Good to hear you were able to open the cooler 20 min. dough....maybe try one straight outta the koolah?  :)

Funny you should mention this - I didn't plan it this way, but this is exactly what happened! I pulled out one ball and gave it 10 or 15 minutes at room temp before opening it up. Everything was going swimmingly, and I was just about to place the skin on the peel when one hand slipped and I ended up with a tangled and tearing skin! ARGH! I had such high hopes for this pie, that I quickly gave up on saving it (I didn't want an ugly pie!), so I re-balled this disaster, stuck it back in the fridge, and grabbed the second (very cold!) ball and immediately started opening it. I went slow, and it opened up OK. Got it on the peel, dressed it, and... the little mf'er stuck to the peel a bit as I slid it in the oven!  :o NOOOOOOOOOO!

I didn't take the time to really inspect the situation - I just closed the oven and crossed my fingers.

One other note: hottest oven I ever had! Measured the tiles at 660 before sliding the pie in. Started smoking immediately, as some of the toppings ended up on the tiles, I think. I assumed the worst.

In the end, it wasn't *that* bad. It was misshapen, yes... but not nearly as bad as I feared. The char on the bottom was insane... half a shade too much, for me actually. I kept it in for 4.5 minutes, but I'm thinking around 4 would have been better. And the cold dough going into super-hot oven gave me some wicked oven spring, and one of the biggest edge crust bubbles I've ever seen. I wish I would have gotten it on the tiles properly, because this pie had such great potential!

Oh, well... while not what I hoped for, it was still quite delish, and was a good learning experiment. I suspect that condensation on the cold dough may have caused it to be stickier than I expected, resulting in the misfire. One thing is for sure... I need to experiment more at these higher oven temperatures, I think. To be honest, I'm not sure how hot this oven will go at this point.

And the 4th dough ball that got mangled and put back in the fridge? That will be an experiment for another day! LOL!

(BTW, trick photography was used to make the finished pie look mostly normal... it really wasn't quite that pretty!)

__Jason

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2013, 09:19:16 PM »
Jason,
Although I don't believe the "trick photography" statement....if it is true please don't do that anymore. We learn from our flops and I know you are here to learn(like me).

Your posts are a lot of fun to read, you got a great outlook and your pies are coming along really well. Thanks for the contributions man! :chef:

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2013, 02:01:58 PM »
Well, got back from vacation and decided to bake off that last dough ball that's been sitting in the fridge (was re-balled after mangling it while opening last week). So this was almost a 2-week old dough ball.

The results: OK - nothing special. It was good to know that I could re-ball and messed up skin and still make a viable pie from it later on though. Flavor-wise, I don't think it really gained much from the extra long time in the fridge.

One thing I need to work on though: more even stretching of my skins. I tend to over-stretch the middle part to almost one giant window pane, with a thick crust. Some are better than others, but I'm not consistent enough. As you can see, this was a *very* thin center crust. I really like a thin crust, but this was extreme - nothing more than a browned bottom and a layer of cheese on top - no real bready "substance" in between... 2 dimensional pizza!  :-D

__Jason

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2013, 02:47:56 PM »
She sure is pretty Jason....I believe you have created a new style!  :chef:  East meets Midwest....NewCracker.  8)
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline GuzziJason

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Re: Working out some better dough, better sauce
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2013, 02:55:40 PM »
Ha! "NewCracker"... I like it!

You know, I never really set out to make a particular "style", like NY or whatever. I just always wanted to make it the way that I like it, which is thin and a bit crispy, but with a puffy edge crust - definitely not cracker style. I've always had a hard time categorizing my pizza.

__Jason


 

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