Author Topic: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project  (Read 3239 times)

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Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2013, 11:13:37 PM »
....Then share it.....

Chau has the perfect method to share starters that he posted long ago.  Dump a couple three tablespoons of the stuff you were going to toss out on a sheet of wax paper, or aluminum foil.  Let it dry. Then gather the flakes and ship them off.  I still have Chau's starter and the New England(dellavecchia) starter somewhere, still in flakes.
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2013, 02:51:20 AM »
Quote
You really should name it.
And I shall call you, Bill Self. Rock Chalk Jayhawk :)

Quote
Then share it.
Quote
Chau has the perfect method to share starters that he posted long ago.  Dump a couple three tablespoons of the stuff you were going to toss out on a sheet of wax paper, or aluminum foil.  Let it dry. Then gather the flakes and ship them off.  I still have Chau's starter and the New England(dellavecchia) starter somewhere, still in flakes.

Absolutely. If anyone wishes to have some, feel free to PM with your address.  Although you folks may want to wait to till I have test driven this starter, to make sure its up to snuff :-D Ill certainly go back and review Chau's method. Thanks for reminding me about that.


Jim
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 08:57:17 AM by JimmyG »
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2013, 09:26:28 AM »
Had a bit of a blow-out to clean up this morning. Looks like the yeast are active again.  ;D

Jim
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline bfguilford

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2013, 09:45:47 AM »
Sure looks like it. You might want to drill a hole in the top to relieve the pressure. 1/8" (or even a bit smaller) ought to do it.

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2013, 11:24:44 AM »
Sure looks like it. You might want to drill a hole in the top to relieve the pressure. 1/8" (or even a bit smaller) ought to do it.

Barry

Small hole + Large pressure = ? Geyser

Said Geyser could, if placed in the correct location, with the right ambient temperature, just possibly coat the entire underside of cupboard with yeasty flour mix in the wee hours of the night.

Which may or may not chemically fuse irreversibly onto cupboard underside, if the husband wasn't checking it like he should have been.

....Luckily I discovered the mess before my bride did. My starter days would have been over, otherwise.

Now I keep the lid on loose, use a bigger jar, and if I'm expecting fireworks, sit that jar in a larger pan.

Fun stuff.

John
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 11:38:11 AM »
The whole point of the hole is to relieve the buidup of gases causing the pressure. No it won't mean that too much starter in too small a container won't overflow, but at least it won't explode.

Barry
Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 11:47:44 AM »
Actually, I think my container was too small to begin with.  :-[  I may have to move up a contain in size or just reduce the amount of starter I initially make.
Jim
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2013, 11:22:38 AM »
Well... I can safely say that I have a healthy starter, however, I did notice that the flavor of the starter has changed. The starter has a very mild flavor now and is not quite as sharp or sour as it was previously. Maybe it will take more time to bring those flavors back or those bacteria have died off. Not sure.... ???

Regardless, I am going to test drive this starter in a Bonci/Pizzarium style pie for the game tomorrow. I'm planning on sticking close to Bonci's recipe, using about 10% starter and an 85%-90% hydration rate–but I will cross list my formula on the Pizzarium thread when I get the recipe figured out.
Jim
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2013, 06:44:31 PM »
Jimmy,  anyone,  you should never eat raw flour or starter.  It says so on the bag of flour there is bacteria in raw flour.  The starter itself could be growing something that could really mess you up too.  What good does tasting it do anyways,  why take a chance.  -Marc

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2013, 10:23:08 AM »
This starter is indeed active and leavening like it should be. Yesterday afternoon I created a Pizzarium/Bonci “style” dough with the starter. The formula is:
80% AP (Wheat Montana brand: 13.33% protein content)
20% Bolted kamut flour (similar to durum but a little sweeter; prehydrated with 127F water)
88% HDR
2.5% Salt
10% Starter (100% HDR)
2% Olive Oil
The dough was mixed by hand using the stretch and fold technique. I allowed the dough to double in the fridge overnight. This morning the dough had effectively doubled as shown below (and yes, that is plumbers tape).  The only real problem I am having now is deciding on the toppings  :-\ :-D


Marc,
 I don’t actually consume the starter, I more or less put it on my tongue to taste it and than spit it out. But thanks for your concern.

Jim
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 12:47:22 PM by JimmyG »
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Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2013, 11:53:50 AM »
Jimmy,  anyone,  you should never eat raw flour or starter.  It says so on the bag of flour there is bacteria in raw flour.  The starter itself could be growing something that could really mess you up too.  What good does tasting it do anyways,  why take a chance.  -Marc

There are bacteria (by the billions) in:

Yogurt
Sour Cream
Cheese
Sauerkraut
Salami

And the list goes on and on.

People by the millions in the US are currently taking pills containing nothing but bacteria in the form of probiotics!

In fact, certain "Good Bacteria" (Lactobacillus) can be used to kill "Bad Bacteria" (Listeria, etc.)

So eat away!

John
I'm not wearing hockey pads!

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2013, 09:41:45 AM »
Sunday night I made two pizzas for the Super Bowl using the recovered starter. Admittedly, I wasn't too pleased with sour dough flavor and there were many technical mistakes made on my part. The dough tasted like it was made IDY, not that there is anything wrong with using it, it is just a mild flavor–not something you would expect from a mature SD culture. Secondly, I forgot to bring the stone to bake on so the bottom didn't brown quite enough, the gas oven I was baking in had problems of its own too, and so on... Fortunately the crust wasn't off putting and the toppings were a hit with the crowd–capers, onion and oregano; potato and salami.

Well in the mean time I am gonna try to figure out how to get some more flavor out of my starter.   I may try making a pasta madre out of the starter to see if more anaerobic conditions will bring out more flavor. I may go pick up some liquid probiotics to see if some of those flora will bring out some more flavor in the present SD starter.  Just a few ideas :-\

BTW, the starter does work, it is just not very flavorful at this point. If anyone would like a sample, feel free to PM me with your address and I can ship it off to you.
Jim
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline JimmyG

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2013, 05:35:17 PM »
After reviewing a few documents and old posts over the noon hour, I have decided to go ahead with exploring different ways to boost the flavor of my old starter. I will most like start this in a new thread, given that this starter was successfully revived and the objective of this post has been achieved.

Until I start this new thread, I am going to post here the methods of my next experiment. I have divided my starter into two portions. One will serve as a control and the other an experimental starter. To the control I am only going to feed it flour and water, it will be feed every 24h, and will be kept at room temp. The formula for the food and water will be a 1 to 1 ratio of each other without any other modifications. 

The experimental portion I'm going to be a little more drastic and throw the whole enchilada at this thing, i.e. changing the hydration, food and temperature. I will feed it the flour and water, but am dropping the hydration down to 50%. In addition, I am adding in 10% glucose by flour weight. The combination of the low hydration (i.e. a more anaerobic environment) and the added simple sugar I am hoping will produce a more acidic environment and more organic volatile compounds (ketones, aldehyde, etc) in the starter.  I am keeping this dough in the oven with the light on to up the temperature–effectively increasing the rate of fuel consumption by yeast and bacteria and substrate/product formation. My feeding regiment is pretty straight forward: I plan on feeding this starter once it has successfully doubled for the next 3 days, than I'm gonna bake off ?something? using both starters.

Can't wait to see what happens.
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Offline bfguilford

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2013, 10:24:20 PM »
Jim:

You might also want to consider experimenting with feeding some of it with different kinds of flour to develop flavor - like whole wheat or rye, which will usually give it a more pronounced flavor (rye even more than whole wheat.

Barry
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Offline JimmyG

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2013, 12:22:22 PM »
Excellent idea Barry. Unfortunately I must report that the starter hasn't changed much if any so I may give it a go this week.
Jim
Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Reviving a 6 mo sourdough starter, aka Jim's Lazarus project
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2013, 01:47:32 PM »
Jimmy,  anyone,  you should never eat raw flour or starter.  It says so on the bag of flour there is bacteria in raw flour.  The starter itself could be growing something that could really mess you up too.  What good does tasting it do anyways,  why take a chance.  -Marc

Marc, there is no harm in tasting or consuming raw starter.  I don't recommend consuming it but there is a benefit to tasting starter.   Along with visually gauging how active the starter is you can also smell and taste the maturation process of the starter.  For strong starters like Ischia, you can at different phases taste it go from bland, to sweet, to varying stages of acidification.  These are yet but a few more ways we can verify that yes in deed our starters are maturity at a specific rate and give specific out comes.   This helps us learn when to use the starters, at what stages, and what results we might get from using them at those stages.  Making dough with a very young starter does indeed yield different results from making dough with a very mature and overblown starter. 

As far as bacteria, our GI tract is loaded with many different species of healthy bacteria.  We are surrounded by bacteria and consuming small quantities of it actually keeps our Immune system strong.  As far as I know, I haven't gotten sick from years of tasting starters nor have I heard of anyone getting sick from the practice. 

Chau


 

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