Author Topic: Where are you dough ?  (Read 10285 times)

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Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2013, 05:53:10 AM »
Cornice = rim

Unmalted flour has a tendency to make for tough crusts, because it lacks the tenderizing aspects of the enzymes from the malt.

I don't think the malt you have listed will work.  There's two kinds of malt, diastatic and non diastatic.  Non diastatic malt is just another form of sugar.  The diastatic malt is what helps break down the compounds in the dough, which in turn, gives you better browning and a better texture with longer bakes.

Unless you can confirm this malt is diastatic/has enzyme activity, I would look elsewhere. Like I said, home brewing stores might carry it.

Otherwise, you should think about developing a 4 day dough, with perhaps more oil.

There is a spec sheet of the extract and it says it will produce better crisp, fluffy and flavor. I will try this extract, theres nothing to lose :pizza:

What kind of formula should i use for 4 day dough ? I guess it has very small amount of yeast, but how small ?


scott123

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2013, 11:38:56 PM »
Morgan, you're right, it can't hurt to try. Until you know otherwise, I would treat your malt like sugar and use 1% of it, while omitting the sugar.

Yeast quantities aren't proportional to fermentation time. Unfortunately, you can't halve the yeast when you double the fermentation time.  It's not that simple.  I also have no idea how your flour ferments.  If I had to take a stab, I might start with .2%, but I'd try to be as flexible as possible and be ready to bake up the pizza any time on day 3 and 4. Also, if, on day 4, the dough is especially sluggish and hasn't risen much, take it out of the fridge earlier than you normally do.

Start getting into the habit of using clear containers for proofing the dough and take photos of the underside of the container each day. With your unmalted flour, I think you want to take the dough as far as this (which is pretty far):

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23460.msg239950.html#msg239950

Armed with these pictures, we will be in a far better position to be able to help you dial in the perfect level of fermentation time and make any adjustments to the yeast, if necessary.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 11:48:07 PM by scott123 »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2013, 03:17:49 AM »
Morgan, you're right, it can't hurt to try. Until you know otherwise, I would treat your malt like sugar and use 1% of it, while omitting the sugar.

Yeast quantities aren't proportional to fermentation time. Unfortunately, you can't halve the yeast when you double the fermentation time.  It's not that simple.  I also have no idea how your flour ferments.  If I had to take a stab, I might start with .2%, but I'd try to be as flexible as possible and be ready to bake up the pizza any time on day 3 and 4. Also, if, on day 4, the dough is especially sluggish and hasn't risen much, take it out of the fridge earlier than you normally do.

Start getting into the habit of using clear containers for proofing the dough and take photos of the underside of the container each day. With your unmalted flour, I think you want to take the dough as far as this (which is pretty far):

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23460.msg239950.html#msg239950

Armed with these pictures, we will be in a far better position to be able to help you dial in the perfect level of fermentation time and make any adjustments to the yeast, if necessary.

Lets try this out. I want to crank the malt up to 2% :angel: Maybe i make two patches and the other with 1% malt.

I made these 2 patches. Had to cut down the size of the dough, I'm not sure, but i think I'm gaining some fat-mass with this experimental...


Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.2%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (2%):
Sugar (2%):
Total (169.2%):
Single Ball:
295.51 g  |  10.42 oz | 0.65 lbs
186.17 g  |  6.57 oz | 0.41 lbs
0.59 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.2 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
5.91 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.06 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
5.91 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.31 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
5.91 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.48 tsp | 0.49 tbsp
500 g | 17.64 oz | 1.1 lbs | TF = N/A
250 g | 8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs


Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.2%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (2%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (168.2%):
Single Ball:
297.27 g  |  10.49 oz | 0.66 lbs
187.28 g  |  6.61 oz | 0.41 lbs
0.59 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.2 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
5.95 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
5.95 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.32 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
2.97 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
500 g | 17.64 oz | 1.1 lbs | TF = N/A
250 g | 8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 04:08:21 AM by Morgan »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2013, 06:47:19 AM »
I noticed that the other patch is rising faster, damn i forgot which is which. Maybe the one rising faster is the one with more sugar ?

First picture is the better rising and other hasn't raised allmost at all, its been like 50h now.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 07:13:44 AM by Morgan »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2013, 11:39:19 AM »
Made one pie from the better rising patch while ago. Dough fermented around 72h in fridge and 3-4h room temp.
I think i might get better browning using conventional oven or maybe its just the dough. This pie took 5 minutes on Pronto, stonetemp around 380c when launched.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 11:42:42 AM by Morgan »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2013, 03:02:45 PM »
Wow, that first pic of Scotts recipe dough looks really good Morgan. And the rest of the photos shows awesome improvement.
So how did you like it? Has the other dough become more active? Is that shredded pork there I see?
Nice looking pizza!
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2013, 03:41:33 PM »
Wow, that first pic of Scotts recipe dough looks really good Morgan. And the rest of the photos shows awesome improvement.
So how did you like it? Has the other dough become more active? Is that shredded pork there I see?
Nice looking pizza!

Dough felt good and it was easy to stretch, lots of air on the dough. I like it, but I'm offcourse looking to get better result. I think the oven is the weakest link since its not producing enough heat on the top. I bake the other half of this same patch tomorrow with conventional oven with broiler then again we know more.

The other patch is improving slowly. No shredded pork in this pie, it is tuna Bob :pizza:

I found this Reinhart New York Style Pizza Dough thread and like the look of these pies: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13442.0.html
I will give this a shot maybe next week! I like that ghetto booty cornice :P
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 03:45:32 PM by Morgan »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2013, 04:45:06 PM »
This was the last pie from the long fermented patch. This dough fermented like 5 days in fridge and 4h room temp.
Launched 400c stone temp.

Baked couple pies in the conventional oven yesterday from the same patch, but this countertop oven is better for sure. Biggest difference is on the bottom.
There just isn't enough heat on my conventional oven.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 04:46:39 PM by Morgan »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2013, 04:51:25 AM »
I made small batch using molino pasini 00 Pizza flour (green). Should be ready tomorrow i cant wait!


Used Reinhart New york style pizza dough recipe as a guideline.

Flour (100%):
Water (60%):
IDY (0.8%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (5%):
Sugar (5%):
Total (172.8%):
Single Ball:
254.63 g  |  8.98 oz | 0.56 lbs
152.78 g  |  5.39 oz | 0.34 lbs
2.04 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.68 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
5.09 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.91 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
12.73 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.83 tsp | 0.94 tbsp
12.73 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.19 tsp | 1.06 tbsp
440 g | 15.52 oz | 0.97 lbs | TF = N/A
220 g | 7.76 oz | 0.49 lbs

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2013, 03:42:24 PM »
Baked two pies today. Dough was pretty good after 24h fridge + 8h room temp. Definitely best 00 flour what i have used, before this molino pizza flour i have only used 00 flour what is made for pastry etc. I think that i wont get much more better result with this countertop oven without modding it, there just isn't enough heat on the top. I cant say for sure, but i think my pies could really benefit from wfo.

Sorry for the poor quality of the pictures, taken with cellphone since i left my camera to the car...
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 03:48:59 PM by Morgan »


Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2013, 04:41:14 PM »
Very tasty looking there Morgan.  :chef:

Are you rotating your pie any during the bake?
Bob
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Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2013, 03:12:38 AM »
Very tasty looking there Morgan.  :chef:

Are you rotating your pie any during the bake?

Bob

I try to rotate one time, but sometimes i don't do it. You can definitely see the burn marks where the broiler is on the oven.
Baking time for that pie was 4 minutes and you can see that its allmost impossible to bake more since the bottom is well cooked.

It could be worst if neither wouldn't bake right, now at least the bottom is good :chef: What kind of result do you Bob get with that same style countertop oven ? Do you have any thread or pics here in pizzamaking ?

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2013, 06:14:01 AM »
Just made this batch, 250gr of Molino 00 pizza flours and 50gr of yeastbread flours. I used cane sugar instead of regular white.


Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
IDY (0.17%):
Salt (3%):
Oil (2%):
Sugar (2%):
Total (165.17%):
Single Ball:
302.72 g  |  10.68 oz | 0.67 lbs
175.58 g  |  6.19 oz | 0.39 lbs
0.51 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
9.08 g | 0.32 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.63 tsp | 0.54 tbsp
6.05 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.35 tsp | 0.45 tbsp
6.05 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.52 tsp | 0.51 tbsp
500 g | 17.64 oz | 1.1 lbs | TF = N/A
250 g | 8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 06:35:46 AM by Morgan »

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2013, 06:08:27 PM »
I try to rotate one time, but sometimes i don't do it. You can definitely see the burn marks where the broiler is on the oven.
Baking time for that pie was 4 minutes and you can see that its allmost impossible to bake more since the bottom is well cooked.

It could be worst if neither wouldn't bake right, now at least the bottom is good :chef: What kind of result do you Bob get with that same style countertop oven ? Do you have any thread or pics here in pizzamaking ?
I was recently playing around with mine on a thread but I don't think I have any pics up Morgan. Suffice it to say that I commented that I was not going any further untill I'm able to install a second top heating element.....and so far I can't find one.  >:(

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2013, 03:29:13 AM »
I was recently playing around with mine on a thread but I don't think I have any pics up Morgan. Suffice it to say that I commented that I was not going any further untill I'm able to install a second top heating element.....and so far I can't find one.  >:(

Bob

I might find you a heating element same as this on the picture, but not sure would it be beneficial $ deal for you. I could sen it to you, but like i say it would
cost you somewhere around atleast 40$ including shipping or maybe even more.


Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2013, 11:06:20 AM »
I might find you a heating element same as this on the picture, but not sure would it be beneficial $ deal for you. I could sen it to you, but like i say it would
cost you somewhere around atleast 40$ including shipping or maybe even more.
Very nice of you Morgan, thank you. The price would be fine but the shape of that element is not quite what I'm needing I believe. On member "subs" and other units I've seen where they use 2 upper elements they use circular elements and attach a small metal bowl(deflector)right in the center of the lid with the round heating elements circling around the bowl....if that makes any sense to you.  :D

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #76 on: March 15, 2013, 04:33:41 AM »
Morgan, I'm pretty sure all your flours are unmalted. Unless you want to start looking for diastatic malt powder (are there any homebrewers in Finland?), you won't get good browning/good texture unless you ferment the dough for at least 3 days, with an appropriate level of yeast for the dough to only double before baking.

I just ordered some diastatic malt powder and i will try it out when it arrives. How much do i use it ?

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #77 on: March 15, 2013, 04:36:49 AM »
Very nice of you Morgan, thank you. The price would be fine but the shape of that element is not quite what I'm needing I believe. On member "subs" and other units I've seen where they use 2 upper elements they use circular elements and attach a small metal bowl(deflector)right in the center of the lid with the round heating elements circling around the bowl....if that makes any sense to you.  :D

Bob

Ok i didnt remember that you had you oven with round heater. I will try to put something metal to my oven at some point, i dont see a problem there.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #78 on: March 15, 2013, 02:34:32 PM »
Morgan,
On that oven pic just above...sub says that if you put a shiny pie tin behind that top element it helps.
Just something easy to do if you'd like to try it...

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #79 on: March 15, 2013, 02:39:53 PM »
Morgan,
On that oven pic just above...sub says that if you put a shiny pie tin behind that top element it helps.
Just something easy to do if you'd like to try it...

Bob

I have made this simple tune up allready http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23257.0.html


 

pizzapan