Author Topic: Where are you dough ?  (Read 15155 times)

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Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2013, 05:24:15 PM »
Yes, those 2. What about maybe 335 c?

OK! Why not, i will test it some day 335c. The basic launch temp has been around 350-380c for me.

Bob, did you have a similar countertop oven to mine ?


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2013, 05:35:17 PM »
OK! Why not, i will test it some day 335c. The basic launch temp has been around 350-380c for me.

Bob, did you have a similar countertop oven to mine ?
Actually, about 15 min ago I started a pretty lame search to see what you were cooking in and saw a lot of talk about soapstone or sumthin an bailed... :-D   sorry man.  :-[

I do have a Lil Deni countertop that I recently talked about reaching 1050 degrees with... :o
Would you please link me to your rig Morgan...thanks!
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Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2013, 05:38:43 PM »
Bob, i tought that you know what gear im using. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23257.0.html

I used basic domestic oven just a while ago, but now getting back to Pronto.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 05:44:04 PM by Morgan »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2013, 06:03:13 PM »
Bob, i tought that you know what gear im using. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23257.0.html

I used basic domestic oven just a while ago, but now getting back to Pronto.
Nope...I seemed to have missed that thread.  >:(
Everything is now coming into Crystal Blue Persuasion...



My Lil Deni is oh so similar to your get up and picking up where that thread left off at( your asking sub if you should pull the bottom heater and install it in the lid)...yes! I believe that is the only way to get one of these to act right and my last question to sub(on a different thread obviously) was where I can by a second heating element for me to install in the lid. Mine does not have the lower element to scavenge.
These ovens use firebrick for their hearth material and that is why the bottom burns at temps over around 800 degrees.
Thanks for bringing me up to speed on your counter top oven Morgan....now I know what we deal'in with bro.   ;D

Bob
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:14:31 PM by Steve »
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Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2013, 03:22:09 AM »
Thats OK Bob ;) Feel free to add some spices to the Pronto thread :pizza:

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2013, 12:35:16 PM »
Just made first pie out of the new flours i ordered. Toppings ham, tuna, pepperoni and pineapple. I really think that the dough i made before was better than this one, this isn't even browning so nicely. Have to test tomorrow again, i allways make a patch of 4 balls.


I used this Scott123 suggested formula x4.

Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
ADY (.5%):
Salt (1.75%):
Oil (2%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (168.25%):
   131.31 g  |  4.63 oz | 0.29 lbs
82.73 g  |  2.92 oz | 0.18 lbs
0.66 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
2.3 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.41 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
2.63 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.58 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
1.31 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
220.93 g | 7.79 oz | 0.49 lbs | TF = 0.09
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 03:31:45 AM by Morgan »

scott123

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2013, 04:02:00 AM »
Morgan, I'm pretty sure all your flours are unmalted. Unless you want to start looking for diastatic malt powder (are there any homebrewers in Finland?), you won't get good browning/good texture unless you ferment the dough for at least 3 days, with an appropriate level of yeast for the dough to only double before baking.

Out of the flours you've used, what's the highest protein level 00 flour?  While I was discouraging you from using the 00 flour earlier, considering what you have at your disposal, I think pizzeria 00 is the best you can get- as long as it's high enough protein.  It's definitely better than hiivaleipäjauho or type 0, which are both too coarsely milled for our purposes.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2013, 06:04:08 AM »
Morgan, I'm pretty sure all your flours are unmalted. Unless you want to start looking for diastatic malt powder (are there any homebrewers in Finland?), you won't get good browning/good texture unless you ferment the dough for at least 3 days, with an appropriate level of yeast for the dough to only double before baking.

Out of the flours you've used, what's the highest protein level 00 flour?  While I was discouraging you from using the 00 flour earlier, considering what you have at your disposal, I think pizzeria 00 is the best you can get- as long as it's high enough protein.  It's definitely better than hiivaleipäjauho or type 0, which are both too coarsely milled for our purposes.

There might be some smaller brewing companies and hobbiest for sure. This new "pizza flour 0" from the last patch has 11.5gr protein, Dallari farina 00 which i also have has 10.2gr protein per 100gr.

Scott, where should i go from here ? I send email to Italy about the Antico Molino Caputo, but did not get any response yet.


Does it have to be malt powder ? I found Barley Malt Extract, but not sure will i found powder. If this extract is OK i will go and get it as fast i can!

Barley Malt Extract 400g

mallasuute Barley malt extract is made of Finnish barley. This is a product with a sweet and mild taste, a golden brown colour and a syrup-like texture.

You can both eat it as such and use it in baking in order to get better flavour and volume and appetizing crust. The dosage in dough is usually 0,5- 1 dl per 1 liter liquid.

If you need a stomach friendly constipation help you can try malt extract.

It is suitable for children as well. The dosage for adults is 1 tablespoonful of malt extract 3-4 times per day, for children 1 teaspoonful of malt extract 3-4 times per day and for babies 1 teaspoonful of malt extract twice a day added into breast milk or baby formula. The prepared mixture is to be used immediately. Barley malt extract 400g is available in the Finnish pharmacies.

« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 06:25:45 AM by Morgan »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2013, 03:23:44 AM »
This Pizza 0 flour just isn't working when used alone, maybe better if combined to other flours or more sugar.

I made this last patch using only Pizza 0 flours. Cornice is way to chewy! I have to ask, by cornice you do mean the outer rim ?


I used this Scott123 suggested dough x4.

Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
ADY (.5%):
Salt (1.75%):
Oil (2%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (168.25%):
   131.31 g  |  4.63 oz | 0.29 lbs
82.73 g  |  2.92 oz | 0.18 lbs
0.66 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
2.3 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.41 tsp | 0.14 tbsp
2.63 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.58 tsp | 0.19 tbsp
1.31 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.33 tsp | 0.11 tbsp
220.93 g | 7.79 oz | 0.49 lbs | TF = 0.09
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 03:28:33 AM by Morgan »


scott123

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2013, 05:29:27 AM »
Cornice = rim

Unmalted flour has a tendency to make for tough crusts, because it lacks the tenderizing aspects of the enzymes from the malt.

I don't think the malt you have listed will work.  There's two kinds of malt, diastatic and non diastatic.  Non diastatic malt is just another form of sugar.  The diastatic malt is what helps break down the compounds in the dough, which in turn, gives you better browning and a better texture with longer bakes.

Unless you can confirm this malt is diastatic/has enzyme activity, I would look elsewhere. Like I said, home brewing stores might carry it.

Otherwise, you should think about developing a 4 day dough, with perhaps more oil.

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2013, 05:53:10 AM »
Cornice = rim

Unmalted flour has a tendency to make for tough crusts, because it lacks the tenderizing aspects of the enzymes from the malt.

I don't think the malt you have listed will work.  There's two kinds of malt, diastatic and non diastatic.  Non diastatic malt is just another form of sugar.  The diastatic malt is what helps break down the compounds in the dough, which in turn, gives you better browning and a better texture with longer bakes.

Unless you can confirm this malt is diastatic/has enzyme activity, I would look elsewhere. Like I said, home brewing stores might carry it.

Otherwise, you should think about developing a 4 day dough, with perhaps more oil.

There is a spec sheet of the extract and it says it will produce better crisp, fluffy and flavor. I will try this extract, theres nothing to lose :pizza:

What kind of formula should i use for 4 day dough ? I guess it has very small amount of yeast, but how small ?

scott123

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2013, 11:38:56 PM »
Morgan, you're right, it can't hurt to try. Until you know otherwise, I would treat your malt like sugar and use 1% of it, while omitting the sugar.

Yeast quantities aren't proportional to fermentation time. Unfortunately, you can't halve the yeast when you double the fermentation time.  It's not that simple.  I also have no idea how your flour ferments.  If I had to take a stab, I might start with .2%, but I'd try to be as flexible as possible and be ready to bake up the pizza any time on day 3 and 4. Also, if, on day 4, the dough is especially sluggish and hasn't risen much, take it out of the fridge earlier than you normally do.

Start getting into the habit of using clear containers for proofing the dough and take photos of the underside of the container each day. With your unmalted flour, I think you want to take the dough as far as this (which is pretty far):

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23460.msg239950.html#msg239950

Armed with these pictures, we will be in a far better position to be able to help you dial in the perfect level of fermentation time and make any adjustments to the yeast, if necessary.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 11:48:07 PM by scott123 »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2013, 03:17:49 AM »
Morgan, you're right, it can't hurt to try. Until you know otherwise, I would treat your malt like sugar and use 1% of it, while omitting the sugar.

Yeast quantities aren't proportional to fermentation time. Unfortunately, you can't halve the yeast when you double the fermentation time.  It's not that simple.  I also have no idea how your flour ferments.  If I had to take a stab, I might start with .2%, but I'd try to be as flexible as possible and be ready to bake up the pizza any time on day 3 and 4. Also, if, on day 4, the dough is especially sluggish and hasn't risen much, take it out of the fridge earlier than you normally do.

Start getting into the habit of using clear containers for proofing the dough and take photos of the underside of the container each day. With your unmalted flour, I think you want to take the dough as far as this (which is pretty far):

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23460.msg239950.html#msg239950

Armed with these pictures, we will be in a far better position to be able to help you dial in the perfect level of fermentation time and make any adjustments to the yeast, if necessary.

Lets try this out. I want to crank the malt up to 2% :angel: Maybe i make two patches and the other with 1% malt.

I made these 2 patches. Had to cut down the size of the dough, I'm not sure, but i think I'm gaining some fat-mass with this experimental...


Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.2%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (2%):
Sugar (2%):
Total (169.2%):
Single Ball:
295.51 g  |  10.42 oz | 0.65 lbs
186.17 g  |  6.57 oz | 0.41 lbs
0.59 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.2 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
5.91 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.06 tsp | 0.35 tbsp
5.91 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.31 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
5.91 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.48 tsp | 0.49 tbsp
500 g | 17.64 oz | 1.1 lbs | TF = N/A
250 g | 8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs


Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.2%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (2%):
Sugar (1%):
Total (168.2%):
Single Ball:
297.27 g  |  10.49 oz | 0.66 lbs
187.28 g  |  6.61 oz | 0.41 lbs
0.59 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.2 tsp | 0.07 tbsp
5.95 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
5.95 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.32 tsp | 0.44 tbsp
2.97 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
500 g | 17.64 oz | 1.1 lbs | TF = N/A
250 g | 8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 04:08:21 AM by Morgan »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2013, 06:47:19 AM »
I noticed that the other patch is rising faster, damn i forgot which is which. Maybe the one rising faster is the one with more sugar ?

First picture is the better rising and other hasn't raised allmost at all, its been like 50h now.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 07:13:44 AM by Morgan »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #64 on: March 02, 2013, 11:39:19 AM »
Made one pie from the better rising patch while ago. Dough fermented around 72h in fridge and 3-4h room temp.
I think i might get better browning using conventional oven or maybe its just the dough. This pie took 5 minutes on Pronto, stonetemp around 380c when launched.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 11:42:42 AM by Morgan »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2013, 03:02:45 PM »
Wow, that first pic of Scotts recipe dough looks really good Morgan. And the rest of the photos shows awesome improvement.
So how did you like it? Has the other dough become more active? Is that shredded pork there I see?
Nice looking pizza!
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Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2013, 03:41:33 PM »
Wow, that first pic of Scotts recipe dough looks really good Morgan. And the rest of the photos shows awesome improvement.
So how did you like it? Has the other dough become more active? Is that shredded pork there I see?
Nice looking pizza!

Dough felt good and it was easy to stretch, lots of air on the dough. I like it, but I'm offcourse looking to get better result. I think the oven is the weakest link since its not producing enough heat on the top. I bake the other half of this same patch tomorrow with conventional oven with broiler then again we know more.

The other patch is improving slowly. No shredded pork in this pie, it is tuna Bob :pizza:

I found this Reinhart New York Style Pizza Dough thread and like the look of these pies: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13442.0.html
I will give this a shot maybe next week! I like that ghetto booty cornice :P
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 03:45:32 PM by Morgan »


Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2013, 04:45:06 PM »
This was the last pie from the long fermented patch. This dough fermented like 5 days in fridge and 4h room temp.
Launched 400c stone temp.

Baked couple pies in the conventional oven yesterday from the same patch, but this countertop oven is better for sure. Biggest difference is on the bottom.
There just isn't enough heat on my conventional oven.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 04:46:39 PM by Morgan »

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2013, 04:51:25 AM »
I made small batch using molino pasini 00 Pizza flour (green). Should be ready tomorrow i cant wait!


Used Reinhart New york style pizza dough recipe as a guideline.

Flour (100%):
Water (60%):
IDY (0.8%):
Salt (2%):
Oil (5%):
Sugar (5%):
Total (172.8%):
Single Ball:
254.63 g  |  8.98 oz | 0.56 lbs
152.78 g  |  5.39 oz | 0.34 lbs
2.04 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.68 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
5.09 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.91 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
12.73 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.83 tsp | 0.94 tbsp
12.73 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 3.19 tsp | 1.06 tbsp
440 g | 15.52 oz | 0.97 lbs | TF = N/A
220 g | 7.76 oz | 0.49 lbs

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2013, 03:42:24 PM »
Baked two pies today. Dough was pretty good after 24h fridge + 8h room temp. Definitely best 00 flour what i have used, before this molino pizza flour i have only used 00 flour what is made for pastry etc. I think that i wont get much more better result with this countertop oven without modding it, there just isn't enough heat on the top. I cant say for sure, but i think my pies could really benefit from wfo.

Sorry for the poor quality of the pictures, taken with cellphone since i left my camera to the car...
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 03:48:59 PM by Morgan »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2013, 04:41:14 PM »
Very tasty looking there Morgan.  :chef:

Are you rotating your pie any during the bake?
Bob
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Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2013, 03:12:38 AM »
Very tasty looking there Morgan.  :chef:

Are you rotating your pie any during the bake?

Bob

I try to rotate one time, but sometimes i don't do it. You can definitely see the burn marks where the broiler is on the oven.
Baking time for that pie was 4 minutes and you can see that its allmost impossible to bake more since the bottom is well cooked.

It could be worst if neither wouldn't bake right, now at least the bottom is good :chef: What kind of result do you Bob get with that same style countertop oven ? Do you have any thread or pics here in pizzamaking ?

Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2013, 06:14:01 AM »
Just made this batch, 250gr of Molino 00 pizza flours and 50gr of yeastbread flours. I used cane sugar instead of regular white.


Flour (100%):
Water (58%):
IDY (0.17%):
Salt (3%):
Oil (2%):
Sugar (2%):
Total (165.17%):
Single Ball:
302.72 g  |  10.68 oz | 0.67 lbs
175.58 g  |  6.19 oz | 0.39 lbs
0.51 g | 0.02 oz | 0 lbs | 0.17 tsp | 0.06 tbsp
9.08 g | 0.32 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.63 tsp | 0.54 tbsp
6.05 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.35 tsp | 0.45 tbsp
6.05 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.52 tsp | 0.51 tbsp
500 g | 17.64 oz | 1.1 lbs | TF = N/A
250 g | 8.82 oz | 0.55 lbs
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 06:35:46 AM by Morgan »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2013, 06:08:27 PM »
I try to rotate one time, but sometimes i don't do it. You can definitely see the burn marks where the broiler is on the oven.
Baking time for that pie was 4 minutes and you can see that its allmost impossible to bake more since the bottom is well cooked.

It could be worst if neither wouldn't bake right, now at least the bottom is good :chef: What kind of result do you Bob get with that same style countertop oven ? Do you have any thread or pics here in pizzamaking ?
I was recently playing around with mine on a thread but I don't think I have any pics up Morgan. Suffice it to say that I commented that I was not going any further untill I'm able to install a second top heating element.....and so far I can't find one.  >:(

Bob
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Offline Morgan

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Re: Where are you dough ?
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2013, 03:29:13 AM »
I was recently playing around with mine on a thread but I don't think I have any pics up Morgan. Suffice it to say that I commented that I was not going any further untill I'm able to install a second top heating element.....and so far I can't find one.  >:(

Bob

I might find you a heating element same as this on the picture, but not sure would it be beneficial $ deal for you. I could sen it to you, but like i say it would
cost you somewhere around atleast 40$ including shipping or maybe even more.



 

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