Author Topic: Third attempt - Anna's Tipo 00 flour  (Read 449 times)

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Offline emma

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Third attempt - Anna's Tipo 00 flour
« on: February 22, 2015, 08:55:34 PM »
So I made my 9th and 10th pizzas this weekend using Anna's Tipo 00 flour.  I followed exactly the same recipe and method as before (Johnny's clone) and while the pizza was still delicious, I wanted to share a couple of things and ask for a bit more clarification for next time.  To be clear, since I don't have such an exact scale that measures tiny amounts I have been using the yeast mixed with water method where you reduce the overall amount of water from the final ingredients.

First off, I have not been brave enough to try multiplying the recipe yet so have essentially been making a single ball times whatever many pizzas I think I'll be needing.  This has been more work, and, I expect, may be impacting the kneading/assembling process insofar as the first mixing together of the additional ingredients with the preferment...  I remember reading here somewhere that the KA does not perform well with small batches.

Saying that, I have questions about the method I have been using in terms of room temperature rising/proofing when I will not be using all of the dough I have prepared that evening.  I'm hoping that I can get some advice about a method that will allow me to save half of the dough (or more) for use later in the week.

To now, I have prepared individual preferments in the Rubbermaid containers 24 hours in advance of baking the pizza.  I let the containers with the preferment sit in the oven with the light on overnight and then add the additional ingredients the next morning.  After the preferment has doubled and is showing good activity, I measure the flour, add the salt, then the water and oil in a separate bowl.  Then dump these ingredients into the KA bowl and scrape the preferment in.  I mix on speed 1 for a max of 5 minutes with the dough hook scraping down the sides pretty much the entire time.  After 5 minutes, I turn out the dough onto my stainless steel countertop and knead with the heel of my palm, folding and turning, for about 5 minutes or until smooth and elastic.  Then I gently ball and place directly back into the Rubbermaid that had the preferment - no oil, no cleaning, nothing.  These individual containers go back into the oven with the light on all day - at least 6 - 8 hours, depending.  They double in size. 

I take them out an hour before the bake and set them on the countertop while I preheat my convection oven with stone (max 475 as the convection function automatically lowers the temp 25 degrees) for at least an hour.  I turn out the dough (have to use the rubber spatula to release the dough from the edges of the container) onto a piece of parchment set on my metal peel and then stretch the dough avoiding stretching/touching the edges.  I have no problem with the dough stretching back at all. I top with uncooked tomato puree that has a cube of basil, some fennel, salt, and oregano (thanks Jsaras!).  Then I add finely grated pecorino romano, prosciutto, pulled fresh mozzarella, mushrooms, and olives... I let the pizza cook on the parchment for about 8 minutes or so until it is set and then quickly pull out the paper, rotate and cook for about another 8 minutes. 

Sorry if all of that is too much information  :(

I am hoping that this community can weigh in on why there is so little spring during the bake?  I do like my pizzas thin, however, this last batch with the Tipo 00 was too thin.  I am getting good crunch, but not enough chew.  This was also true for my earlier batches with the King Arthur flour (although those were slightly better)

Despite being super thin, the middle of my last pizza was a bit soggy (could be too much sauce).

Also, what should I do if I want to make 2 or 3 balls and only use one 24 hours after starting the preferment. To now, I have been putting the containers I have not used into the fridge AFTER the room temperature proofing for 24 - 48 hours with disappointing results (even less rise/spring).  This is after letting them come to room temperature for at least 2 hours before opening.

Finally, do I have these timings correct (both for kneading KA and by hand) and for proofing?  To now I have been more afraid of over-kneading than under-kneading.  I have to say that I barely kneaded my first batch at all (just to combine and absorb the flour) and I'm not seeing much of a difference with the additional kneading.  I did read about the slap method and watched the video that was posted but I must say that my dough is never that wet and soft except after rising.  Are my issues due to trying to work with too little dough?

Water temp may be an issue?  I use the water that has been filtered by my brita and sat out overnight but my apartment is chilly.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!  Sorry for all of the questions!



 


Offline PrimeRib

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Third attempt - Anna's Tipo 00 flour
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2015, 09:30:44 PM »
As fate should have it, I cooked a pie with that flour this evening. It's hard to diagnosis your issue without pictures. My guess is the issue is a combination of low oven temp and the dough was too thin, so you didn't get a good oven spring, but I am just speculating.

My thoughts on this flour is that it is not much different than US all purpose flour.

I used 63.5% hydration, 2.25% salt and 0.25% IDY.  I fermented in frig for 5 days, followed by 4 hours in room temp prior to baking. I baked at 800f lower stone temp in a Blackstone for 120 seconds.

The ball is just after I balled it. In the bag is just after I took it out of the frig. The next dough pic is just before opening up to bake.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 10:05:18 PM by PrimeRib »

Offline PrimeRib

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Re: Third attempt - Anna's Tipo 00 flour
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2015, 09:31:34 PM »
One more pic.

Offline emma

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Re: Third attempt - Anna's Tipo 00 flour
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2015, 01:05:06 AM »
Wow PrimeRib - your pizza looks way better than mine.  :P  Unfortunately the Blackstone is not possible right now.  I am attaching pictures from the second ball kept overnight in the fridge after being proofed all day yesterday and then refrigerated around 9 pm and then prepared tonight - pretty much like the first ball the day before.  Any suggestions?  (FYI this sat out at room temp for 4 hours before opening)

FYI, I tried adding a bit of flour on the peel so as to avoid the parchment tonight.  Worked like a charm - but still no spring/rise  :(

My pizzas are crunchy but too thin and not chewy...


Offline PrimeRib

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Re: Third attempt - Anna's Tipo 00 flour
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2015, 10:41:48 AM »
Given your low oven temp, I would forget the Johnny's Clone and suggest you go with a more traditional NY style with oil and sugar, and use a high protein flour like bread flour containing malted barley (most do).  00 flour is not suited to your oven. You want to really develop the gluten and bake time should be something like 12 minutes at 450'ish.

Offline emma

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Re: Third attempt - Anna's Tipo 00 flour
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2015, 08:34:13 PM »
PrimeRib,

Thank you so much for taking the time to weigh in. Can you please provide a link to the dough & method I should try next?  Would that be King Arthur Bread Flour?  I'd prefer to avoid sugar as much as possible (have an aversion to sweet) so if there is one with minimal sugar that would be grand!

Flavour and chew are what I'm after in as thin a crust as possible...

Offline PrimeRib

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Third attempt - Anna's Tipo 00 flour
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2015, 09:26:27 PM »
Try this (no sugar) using King Arthur bread flour (or another bread flour if KABF is not available).  I store the dough balls in my frig in either Ziploc bags or glad plastic containers.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/lehmann-nystyle.php