Author Topic: Imput on found ingredient  (Read 1770 times)

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Offline pizzaone

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Imput on found ingredient
« on: January 31, 2013, 12:33:51 PM »
I have made pizza with regular ingredients but since i have found this great site i would like to improve my pizza with better ingredients.
I have an electric oven that goes to 550, has the convection option and i have a regular pizza stone.
I would like to make Neapolitand and New York style pizza. Are these ingredients ok for these pies.
Can you also please give me a one day recipi for NY style pizza. I knead by hand.
I had never seen this yeast made especially for pizza.
Thank you..
Sal............

Molini Pizzuti farina tipo 00
Antico Molino Napoli, Antimo Caputo the chefs flour tipo 00
Fleishmann pizza yeast, formulated for pizza crust
Fantino & Mondello pepperoni, sliced dry
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 03:24:23 PM by pizzaone »


Online Tscarborough

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 05:30:05 PM »
The yeast is nothing different that anyone has been able to tell.  As for recipes there are stickies that list several.

Offline David Deas

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 10:43:53 PM »
I have an electric oven that goes to 550, has the convection option and i have a regular pizza stone.
I would like to make Neapolitand and New York style pizza.

You can do neither. 

In order to make Neapolitan pizza you need a 1000 degree wood burning oven.  And in order to do a respectable NY, you need at least 650 degrees.  You can buy all the fancy ingredients in the world but the most important ingredient when it comes to making those styles of pizza has always been the oven itself.

You can, however, make a first class American style pizza.  I would ditch the 00 flour and go with King Arthur bread flour.

Offline Jet_deck

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 10:56:18 PM »
You can do neither. 

In order to make Neapolitan pizza you need a 1000 degree wood burning oven.  And in order to do a respectable NY, you need at least 650 degrees.  You can buy all the fancy ingredients in the world but the most important ingredient when it comes to making those styles of pizza has always been the oven itself.

You can, however, make a first class American style pizza.  I would ditch the 00 flour and go with King Arthur bread flour.

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Offline pizzaone

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2013, 09:15:26 AM »
Sorry for my mistake i ment American style and not NY style. I dont have acces to King Arthur flour, these are what is available for me.
Will these type of flour do for American style pizza.
Thank you.......

Online Tscarborough

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2013, 09:35:58 AM »
Yes, they will work just fine.

Offline ogdred

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2013, 10:43:28 PM »
I'd check out some of the recipes in the New York Style thread, if that's the type of pizza you'd like to try. The vast majority of people posting there have ovens that go no higher than yours. You may not get respect from some of the forum members here, but you should be able to make something you are happy with. My oven dial only goes to 500, and my 6-minute NY style is below.

You would be better off with a standard all-purpose flour, as Canadian commercial flours have relatively high protein. I use either Robin Hood Unbleached or Best for Bread.

The Fleischmann's Pizza Yeast is intended to shorten the fermentation time, so isn't intended for a long, cold ferment. I have used it before, and I honestly didn't see much difference. I would switch to IDY, and buy in larger quantities -- either a jar or a vacuum pack, and store the extra in the freezer.

For each 13-14" pizza, I use
flour 200 g (100%)
water 130 g (65%)
salt 4 g (2%)
olive oil 4 g (2%)
sugar 2 g (2%)
IDY 1/4 tsp (or less - aiming for 1/6 tsp)

Normally if I knead by hand, I make two or three balls at a time, and do an autolyse first, meaning all of the water is mixed with 130 g of the flour, and left for up to an hour, before the remaining flour and other ingredients are kneaded in. I cold ferment for at least two days for maximum benefit.

It took me a little while to get them stretched that big, so you might have to make smaller pizzas, or use more dough.

Online Chicago Bob

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2013, 11:32:23 PM »
Very nice looking pie ogdred!
Well informed post too.... ;)
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 08:33:10 AM »
ogdred,

With the pizza you showed, I can tell you that you have my respect. It is a fine looking pizza.

Your advice on flours, especially in Canada, where pizzaone lives, is well taken. As others have noted, the 00 flour is best suited for the Neapolitan style pizza and very high temperature ovens. Even for the American style pizza, the more typical Canadian flours, like Robin Hood and Five Roses, are better suited for that style because of their relatively high protein content. For now, pizzaone might use his 00 flours in different recipes but be prepared to  consider other flours (as noted above) if he finds that the 00 flours do not give him what he is looking for.

On the matter of the yeast, I cannot tell whether the yeast depicted by pizzaone is the newer yeast product from Fleischmann's Pizza Crust Yeast. That product has been discussed before on the forum and, as noted in Reply 295 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11044.msg102395/topicseen.html#msg102395, comprises ingredients beyond just plain yeast. For pizzaone's purposes, ordinary yeast, like instant dry yeast (IDY) should suffice.

Peter

Offline ogdred

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2013, 10:15:18 AM »
Thanks, Pete. It is the culmination of about 150 pizzas made over the past year. (And somehow, I managed to lose more than 50 pounds at the same time...)

Yes, it is the same as the Fleischmann Pizza Yeast, but with a french-language label for the Canadian market. I don't think it was too popular here, but was begrudgingly given a decent review here: http://www.cookistry.com/2010/11/yeasty-pizza-throwdown.html. As that yeast has some slackeners in it, it might help in shaping, but I don't know what that would do for a cold rise. I used this for a little while for cold ferments, and could not tell any difference at all. I might notice more now, as I would be a little more sensitive to the differences.

So, there's no reason to throw this out, but I would switch over to another form of IDY once it's used up. In particular, yeast packets are not great to measure from, and you'll really want to use less than the standard package if you're doing a cold ferment. (I, for one, am trying to get away with as little yeast as possible, for reasons that I don't understand.)


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2013, 10:59:18 AM »
ogdred,

The way I like to look at things is that there is a time and place for everything. And that applies to yeast products such as the Fleischmann's Pizza Crust Yeast. As you will note from the last sentence in the post on yeast at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8912.msg77255/topicseen.html#msg77255, it can take up to ten years to develop a new yeast from strain to commercial product. So producers do not do this sort of thing just to entertain themselves. They must have identified a market, even though it may later turn out to have been a poor business decision. In pizzaone's case, he should be fine using the Fleischmann's Pizza Crust Yeast until he runs out. Even though that product is intended to speed up things, and would be a good candidate for a short term, or "emergency" dough, that is usable in a few hours, it can still be used for long, cold fermentations. I would just use less of the product, just as you indicated. The long cold fermentation will also yield more byproducts of fermentation that contribute to the taste, flavor, aroma, color and texture of the finished crust and crumb.

As for your weight loss, I take your comment to mean that you made about 150 pizzas but did not eat any of them :-D. Otherwise, you would be defying the laws of the universe.

BTW, you have come a long way since you joined the forum. Congratulations.

Peter

Offline pizzaone

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2013, 11:21:48 AM »
Thanks for the informative post Ogdred. Can you tell me how long should the hand kneading be.
As for the respect i felt it through my keyboard. But i think that the majority of the people on this forum are helpfull and try to make newbies
better pizza makers. Ogdred, i will try your recepi with my flour first and then with Five Roses unbleached bread flour and see the difference.
Again thanks for all the help guys.

Ciao..
Sal....

Offline wsonner

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2013, 11:30:49 AM »
Thanks, Pete. It is the culmination of about 150 pizzas made over the past year. (And somehow, I managed to lose more than 50 pounds at the same time...)

Side note: You have NO idea how encouraging this is. I'm down 15 pounds with another 30 to lose and still making pizzas.  :-)

Offline ogdred

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2013, 12:18:19 PM »
I hand knead for under 5 minutes, usually two or three minutes, take a 5 minute break, and knead a little more. I don't think it really matters too much, especially with a long cold ferment. Ideally, just long enough until you can get a nice smooth outer skin when you form it into a ball.

To raise the Canadian content around here a little, I suggest this video from Diana Coutu as one way to start learning how to shape your dough:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkfDqA8yKg" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbkfDqA8yKg</a>
. At the very least, it emphasizes the importance of keeping the round shape from your first balling to cold storage, to forming the rim, and final stretching. (I shape mine more through aerial spinning now, but this helped me a lot when I was starting out.)

Offline David Deas

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Re: Imput on found ingredient
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 09:32:07 AM »
Sorry for my mistake i ment American style and not NY style. I dont have acces to King Arthur flour, these are what is available for me.
Will these type of flour do for American style pizza.
Thank you.......

Unfortunately type 00 flour will not give you the best results here.  What you prefer in this case is a stronger flour.  I see you are from Canada so you should have plenty of strong flours to choose from.  If you cannot find a strong enough flour for whatever reason, vital wheat gluten works very well as a dough enhancer.  Try and obtain a flour with at least 12% to 13% gluten content.

A typical American style recipe might look something like this:

Flour (high gluten):  1.0
Water:  0.6
Salt:  0.02
Sugar (brown or white):  0.06
Oil (olive or other):  0.08
Yeast (ADY, IDY):  0.06

Food ingredient lists are all pretty similar.  Exact recipes will vary to taste, but there is one thing I think you will learn here and that is the quality of the bake itself is the single most important part of the recipe for making great pizza.  That's the main difference between pizza at home and pizza from a pizzeria.  Almost any ingredient list will work awesomely with a great bake.  So much of what you'll see on the forum is people tinkering with different oven setups, baking surfaces, workflow and broiler techniques.

For a regular American pizza made without any modifications to the oven I usually preheat the oven up to maximum temperature for about an hour with the pizza stone placed on the bottom rack.  After the pizza is launched onto the preheated stone, I will immediately turn on the broiler.  For a 14 inch pie, the pizza is done in about 5-7 minutes.

For dressing your pizza make sure to use a high quality cheese.  For American style I like to use Boar's Head because it will stand up to heat pretty much better than any other low moisture cheese I've ever encountered.  Resist the urge to slice the cheese.  Buy a block and shred it.  Makes a big difference IMO.



« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 09:42:35 AM by David Deas »