Deep dish using natural starter

[dellavecchia]

I had some fun today making DD (which I have little experience) using a starter instead of commercial yeast. I do know that for DD you are not looking for a great amount of fermentation or gluten development due to the biscuit-like texture of the crust - so large amounts of starter is probably not the best match. But I refresh my starters every weekend and I needed something to make so it does not go to waste.

The flavor of the crust was noticeably different from past attempts - having similarities to my NP doughs. Very interesting and pleasantly complimentary to the rest of the ingredients.

I did not put pecorino on top because the sausage and Vermont Cure pepperoni were salty enough. I am new at this, so any comments or suggestions appreciated.

100% AP Flour
58% water
20% Starter
15% corn oil
1% salt

8 hours at room temp - the dough nearly doubled.

John

[TXCraig1]

If I was going to eat deep dish, that is the one I'd want to eat!

[Pete-zza]

John,

Very nice. What you did reminded me of a similar experiment that I conducted for a Neapolitan-inspired deep-dish pizza using natural leavening and Caputo 00 flour.  It is discussed at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2365.msg20625.html#msg20625.

Peter

[deb415611]

Very nice John!!

[dellavecchia]

Thank you Deb and Craig.

Peter - that is a great post. We both chose 20% starter. Why did you choose 20% oil - I went back and forth on choosing a lower oil percentage than most of the recipes I was researching. I thought the high oil would severely inhibit the natural yeast. Any thoughts on this? I was thinking of upping the oil next time.

John

[David Deas]

Nice job.  It's always fun to see guys take a stab at other pizza styles maybe a little less familiar to them.  I enjoy that.

I've tried sourdough with a Chicago DD (stuffed crust variety) as well and the crust is just so buried beneath the mountain of meat and cheese that it didn't make much of a difference in terms of flavor until I ate my way near the pizza bones (at which point you usually have the big yeasty flavor).  It looks like your proportions are more conducive to highlighting a flavorful crust in every bite.

[dellavecchia]

Thank you David. I did make a concerted effort to keep the proportions balanced - plus I can't take too much heaviness. The taste of the crust was enough of a difference that I doubt I will ever use commercial yeast for DD again.

John

[norma427]

John,

That deep dish looks delicious!

Norma

[Chicago Bob]

Looks great John, nice experiment. I wonder if a different oil might give you even more of your NP dough flavor?

[dellavecchia]

Thank you Norma and Bob.

Bob, I have found that olive oil is a bit too overpowering in flavor when used here. I much prefer corn or canola oil.

John

[Pete-zza]

Peter - that is a great post. We both chose 20% starter. Why did you choose 20% oil - I went back and forth on choosing a lower oil percentage than most of the recipes I was researching. I thought the high oil would severely inhibit the natural yeast. Any thoughts on this? I was thinking of upping the oil next time.

John,

As you may know from your research, the possible range of oil (fat) for a Chicago-style deep-dish pizza dough is quite wide. It can be from about 8% to 30%, and even lower than 8% if you go back into the 1970s when Giordano's used about 6% total fat (a combination of margarine and oil). So, I essentially took a number in the middle of the range. For the leavening, I went with 20% because I felt I needed enough to overcome the potential inhibiting effects of the large amount of oil. For other doughs I would normally have used something like 15% starter. That is a number that member bakerboy (Barry), a breadmaker, suggested several years ago. Also, I had previously experimented with a version of a Giordano's clone dough that member buzz had come up with and in which I used a natural preferment, 10% canola/olive oil blend, and some butter. The oil blend and the butter combined had a fat content of a little over 18%. You can see the formulation for that pizza at Reply 22 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1585.msg14755.html#msg14755. No doubt I was influenced by the hydration value I used for that pizza since that is the value I used for the Neapolitan-inspired deep-dish pizza. But for that pizza, I was mainly looking for a fusion of a naturally leavened Neapolitan style using 00 flour and San Marzano tomatoes (and ideally Italian type toppings) and the Chicago deep-dish style with a lot of oil.

I don't know if you noticed but Matt (Matthew) came up with his own version of a Neapolitan-inspired deep-dish pizza but where he used IDY instead of a natural leavening and where he also used some cream of tartar (which is what Gino's East uses/used). He discussed his results in Reply 16 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2365.msg84070.html#msg84070.

Peter

[dellavecchia]

Peter - Thanks for the reply. My original idea was to use less starter because I did not want the dough to expand too much. It is obvious from all of the other DD recipes I have seen that significant expansion/fermentation would detract from the desired texture.

When making panettone using natural leavening, the high fat and sugar environment requires you to get the starter to a hyper active state before being used. You feed it 3-4 times a day for two days straight, to the point where the starter is tripling within a few hours. I obviously don't want to do that just to make DD, so some sort of balance needs to be found. The difference in taste was noticeable enough that 20% starter seems to be a good reference point for 8 hours at 68 degrees. I might try upping the oil and seeing how the starter responds, and then make a determination afterwards to see if the increased oil is what I want in the final product.

But that may be a while from now, because I can only tolerate these giant casseroles once a month or so!

John

[dellavecchia]

One other note. I used Sclafani (NJ) crushed tomatoes here. I thought they were too thick and not chunky enough. I think some other product might be a better choice.

John

[mrmojo1]

oh wow! you DD looks awesome!!!  great job!!  your sauce also looks great to me!  im not a fan of chunks!!  thanks for the pics and posts!!