Author Topic: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?  (Read 2981 times)

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Online pythonic

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Re: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2013, 11:09:45 AM »
Thanks Tom! 

I'll be curious how different my texture/taste will be with the new process... I'm guessing without a side by side comparison (for customers or myself), I won't be able to taste a huge difference... though I've been eating plenty of pizza, so I could easily be mistaken.

Is this your 1st farmers market?  Is it very profitable?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline mkevenson

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Re: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2013, 11:38:53 AM »
Derrick, your new process seems to eliminate the final room temp, ambient temp rise, before the dough ball is opened.  Perhaps I misread ?


Mark
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Offline derricktung

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Re: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2013, 11:48:39 AM »
Derrick, your new process seems to eliminate the final room temp, ambient temp rise, before the dough ball is opened.  Perhaps I misread ?


Mark

Mark - Updated the information.  The ambient temp will be based on weather essentially since we're pulling them from the walk-in and transporting to the market.  I'll be using cooling bags to attempt to control the temps in case the weather outside get's too warm (80+) since we'll be at the market for 6 hours.

Offline derricktung

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Re: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2013, 11:52:09 AM »
Is this your 1st farmers market?  Is it very profitable?

Nate

Nate - This will be our first season at the market.  We'll see if it's profitable...  Unsure as of yet.  By my calculations, we need to sell 26-30 pies per session (depending on the market) to break even... but in my spreadsheet, I over estimated wood costs and underestimated transportation costs (we don't own a truck yet, so we rent each time we go to market.. working on resolving that issue...)  And that's without paying our volunteers for their help.


« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 11:55:38 AM by derricktung »

Offline norma427

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Re: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2013, 01:40:04 PM »
Derrick,

Best of luck in your new farmers market adventure.   ;D

I am not making Neapolitan pizzas, but have seen many problems with dough balls at the different ambient temperatures at market.  I think you will find out how difficult is is to control dough balls if the ambient temperatures swing a lot. 

I have found out though that at the farmers market that I am at that most customers really can't tell the differences if a dough is cold fermented one day or even if a poolish is used.  I really don't know, but don't think most customers have the same ideas about tastes of pizzas like we do here on the forum. 

Norma
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Offline derricktung

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Re: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2013, 07:22:08 AM »
Derrick,

Best of luck in your new farmers market adventure.   ;D

I am not making Neapolitan pizzas, but have seen many problems with dough balls at the different ambient temperatures at market.  I think you will find out how difficult is is to control dough balls if the ambient temperatures swing a lot. 

I have found out though that at the farmers market that I am at that most customers really can't tell the differences if a dough is cold fermented one day or even if a poolish is used.  I really don't know, but don't think most customers have the same ideas about tastes of pizzas like we do here on the forum. 

Norma

I'd have to agree... I think to your average customer who has had limited amounts of wood fired pies and isn't as obsessive as we are, they probably will barely me able to tell the difference between fresh mozz and shredded mozz.  That being said, I'd still like to deliver a great pie and show them what delicious things can come out of a woodfired oven!

I am definitely a little worried about the ambient temperature while outdoors for 6 hours... this should be interesting...

Online pythonic

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Re: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2013, 08:40:44 AM »
Nate - This will be our first season at the market.  We'll see if it's profitable...  Unsure as of yet.  By my calculations, we need to sell 26-30 pies per session (depending on the market) to break even... but in my spreadsheet, I over estimated wood costs and underestimated transportation costs (we don't own a truck yet, so we rent each time we go to market.. working on resolving that issue...)  And that's without paying our volunteers for their help.

Best of luck.  Do you have a website?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2013, 09:31:22 AM »
Derrick;
My professional opinion is that once you achieve a certain level of flavor in a pizza crust it becomes almost impossible to distinguish subtile differences because of all the extraneous flavors associated with pizza from the sauce, cheese and toppings. This is not to say that one cannot distinguish differences between different fermentation processes, such as a sourdough process and a normal yeast fermentation process, but when consumed in context, the flavor of a pizza typically is not greatly affected by a crust that was made from a cold ferment process or a warm ferment process (assuming neither were significantly over or under fermented). Studies that we have done with pizza consumers showed that very seldom did they comment on the flavor of the crust but what they were mainly focusing on was the texture (crispiness or toughness) of the crust. Most home pizza bakers become "pizza connoisseurs" in their own right, so they are much more focused on the individual component flavors and textures of the finished pizza so for this reason we can see differences in flavor and or texture resulting from seemingly slight differences in dough fermentation. I guess what it might boil down to is are you a pizza lover or a pizza connoisseur?
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline derricktung

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Re: Bulk fermentaion and kneading?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2013, 09:56:18 AM »
Derrick;
My professional opinion is that once you achieve a certain level of flavor in a pizza crust it becomes almost impossible to distinguish subtile differences because of all the extraneous flavors associated with pizza from the sauce, cheese and toppings. This is not to say that one cannot distinguish differences between different fermentation processes, such as a sourdough process and a normal yeast fermentation process, but when consumed in context, the flavor of a pizza typically is not greatly affected by a crust that was made from a cold ferment process or a warm ferment process (assuming neither were significantly over or under fermented). Studies that we have done with pizza consumers showed that very seldom did they comment on the flavor of the crust but what they were mainly focusing on was the texture (crispiness or toughness) of the crust. Most home pizza bakers become "pizza connoisseurs" in their own right, so they are much more focused on the individual component flavors and textures of the finished pizza so for this reason we can see differences in flavor and or texture resulting from seemingly slight differences in dough fermentation. I guess what it might boil down to is are you a pizza lover or a pizza connoisseur?
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Great point Tom... considering I've bought/built an oven, made over 400+ pizzas in the past few months, played with my dough recipe repeatedly, etc.  I'd say I'm more borderline connoisseur.  I told Pythonic I'm a little worried about serving to other "connoisseurs" by your definition, but I'm fairly confident pizza lovers will enjoy what we're making.   :)


 

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