bread flour + VWG = lumpy dough?

[youonlylivetwice]

Hi,
I tried to add VWG at the rate of 1 tsp per about 150g of bread flour to increase the gluten content, having read posts about the importance of high-gluten flour in some recipes and wanting to try it for myself.  I am certain I sifted it through well enough so that it well incorporated before the dough was hydrated.  After about a 10 minute knead the dough was satiny, but also seemed slightly lumpy.  Now I know I would have been better off with high-gluten flour rather than using VWG, but has anyone else had this happen?  Is it normal?  too much VWG? simply a function of using VWG? Any tips are greatly appreciated!

thanks!

[Christopher]

youonlylivetwice,
i dont know the reason as to the lumpiness, but i figured i'd throw in my experience. i have used KA Bread flour with VWG with great success and have combined these two together manyt times and have had no lumps. i also knead by hand, so the technique may be different.
i have used the stretch and fold technique (which works very well for big voids in my experience) and a new slap down until dough is long and then roll it back on itself and knead  everytime you roll it back (kinda confusing) and this worked well also.
so, i guess in my experience i have had good results with the VWG and see it as a good way of getting strong dough without all the hassle.
christopher

[youonlylivetwice]

Thanks Christopher,
I guess I'll know this weekend if there was something truly wrong with it... it just didn't seem right.  I used a Kitchaid to knead it, maybe I should have done it by hand.  next time....
thanks for the feedback... how much VWG per weight of bread flour did you use?

[Christopher]

youonlylivetwice,
the last recipe i came up with used 4% VWG to the weight of KA Bread flour. according to my calculations that made up the difference in protein. if someone checks my math and i am wrong i apologise. the dough turned out great though.
are these lumps hard nubs under the surface or are they dried out pieces on top? i used an autolyse of about 30-45 minutes and the dough is way different in texture than if i just balled them and placed in the fridge. do you use an autolyse at all or a rest period after kneading?
christopher

[Pete-zza]

YOLT,

It sounds like you incorporated the vital wheat gluten (VWG) into the flour properly. Usually lumpiness occurs when the VWG in combined with the water. I usually use a whisk to incorporate the VWG to be sure that it is uniformly dispersed throughout the flour.

As for the amount of VWG to use, the answer is that it depends on the protein content of the bread flour you are using. I discussed how to precisely calculate the amount of VWG to use at Reply #65 at the Lehmann thread, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.60.html. Alternatively, you can follow the recommendations of the producer of the VWG since there are slight variations from one brand to the other (a typical usage rate is 1-2 teaspoons per cup of flour). If you do not have any instructions for using your VWG, you should be OK with just about any bread flour to add around 2-3% VWG by weight.

Peter

[youonlylivetwice]

Thanks again Christopher,
First I mixed 450g of bread flour with 3 tsp of VWG and sfted it together VERY well.
Then I used about 2/3 of the flour with 62% hydration, just mixed it and let it sit for 20 minutes.  Then  I added the balance of the flour and kneaded on the slowest speed for 9-10 mins. 
It was very sticky at first, not that gooey kinda sticky but more glue like (without being overly dramtic...)
when it really came together it didn't have any dry spots, but even after a little hand kneading there is no getting a smooth surface, it seems to have developed a lumpiness throughout....
maybe it will work itself out in the rise.