No knead method using Lehmann recipe?

[Chi_Guy]

My most recent pie was a pan pizza using the no-knead method popularized by Jim Lahey.  You can check out the recipe here (http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2013/01/foolproof-pan-pizza-recipe.html) and the pie I made here (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23064.0.html).

Long story short, I liked the crust that the no-knead method produced and wondered if I could apply the same technique to the Lehmann recipes I use for my NY style pies.  I would be much simpler than using the mixer and from my research and limited experience, it results in a dough with as much gluten formation as dough that was manually kneaded.  Has anyone ever tried this for a NY style crust?  How do the taste and texture differ from a regular Lehmann's crust that's been kneaded on a KA and allowed to sit for a day or two in the fridge?

Thanks.

[Chicago Bob]

My most recent pie was a pan pizza using the no-knead method popularized by Jim Lahey.  You can check out the recipe here (http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2013/01/foolproof-pan-pizza-recipe.html) and the pie I made here (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23064.0.html).

Long story short, I liked the crust that the no-knead method produced and wondered if I could apply the same technique to the Lehmann recipes I use for my NY style pies.  I would be much simpler than using the mixer and from my research and limited experience, it results in a dough with as much gluten formation as dough that was manually kneaded.  Has anyone ever tried this for a NY style crust?  How do the taste and texture differ from a regular Lehmann's crust that's been kneaded on a KA and allowed to sit for a day or two in the fridge?

Thanks.

Hey Chi,
Your post sorta takes everything around back in a circle(to me)...if.." from my research and limited experience, it results in a dough with as much gluten formation as dough that was manually kneaded."

It sounds like you've answered your own question friend.

Myself...for these relatively small batches I make the whole dough flat on my counter.

I enjoyed your other post alot....."I also think this is a great recipe for kids or beginners since it's so simple and straightforward."  Thanks......http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23064.msg237420.html#msg237420

[Morgan]

My most recent pie was a pan pizza using the no-knead method popularized by Jim Lahey.  You can check out the recipe here (http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2013/01/foolproof-pan-pizza-recipe.html) and the pie I made here (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23064.0.html).

Thanks for sharing, i will test this recipe maybe next week.

[Chi_Guy]

Thanks ChicagoBob.  I guess the best way is to experiment and find out.  I plan to make a pie next week so will report back soon on my findings..

[Chi_Guy]

So I finally got around to trying a no-knead dough for NY style pizza a couple of days ago.  The dough formulation I used was the same one described in my recent post here:  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,23291.0.html

Except instead of using a mixer, this time I mixed all the ingredients by hand till they just came together, covered, and let it sit for about 24 hours.  After 24 hours took it out of the bowl, sprinkled a little flour over it, formed it into a dough ball, and let it finish proofing for another 2 hours before using it.  One thing I would advise is if using the Lehmann recipe, factor in a high bowl residue compensation because this dough ends up sticking all over the bowl and your fingers.  Placed the dough topped with cheese and tomato sauce on a stone preheated for an hour to 550 degrees to bake.  Now unfortunately since I still am without my pizza peel, I had a mishap sliding the pizza onto the stone which ruined half of the pie 

The pieces of the pie that did come out right were quite different than the NY pies I'm used to.  The resulting crust was more tender with lots of crumb/bubbles and some crispiness on the bottom.  Reminded me of the thin crust slices I get at Whole Foods.  It had some chew but not as much as a typical NY pizza and less browning on the bottom.  But I didn't mind because the amount of chew was just right for a crust this tender.  This dough also had a prominent sourdough taste...I'm not sure how that happened because I didn't use any sourdough starter just the same SAF IDY that I use in all my other pies.  Could the sugar and oil in my recipe have possibly something to do with it?  Indeed, I thought this crust tasted more like bread than pizza dough.  Again not necessarily a bad thing just different.  If you consider the fact that Jim Lahey, the originator of no-knead pizza dough method, is a baker and adapted it from the method he uses to bake artisan bread it makes sense that it would result in a breadlike crust.

I'm not sure if my dough mishap might have skewed things...I'm probably going to try another no-knead Lehmann pie again at some point in time to see if things turn out the same.  At least from this initial experiment, it seems no-knead turns out a different product than the standard kneaded dough.  The latter results in something more similar to NY style pizza while the no-knead method gives a more bread-like product which leads me to believe it would be ideal for a Sicilian type pie.  I had posted about my problems with baking a Sicilian pizza on this forum recently.  Until now I had been using a standard Lehmann dough recipe but now I think the no-knead method may be the way to go since a Sicilian is more akin to baking bread than pizza. 

Back to the pizza lab for now and I will update once I experiment again.  Crumb shot and mangled pizza pics are attached.

[jsaras]

My guess would be that the Lahey approach wouldn't work well with the standard Lehmann formulations.  Lahey's technique works because the combination of high hydration (over 70%) and time (8-24 hours) works as a substitute for kneading.  Lehmann's formulations are lower hydration (usually 63% or less), so the gimmick probably isn't going to do its thing.