Author Topic: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA (Read 2969 times)

widespreadpizza · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2013, 06:52:28 PM »

John, looks solid. I as well think a little more sugar might help get the undercrust look. Also, it occurred to me looking at their slices that there is some paste in their sauce, maybe half and half with crushed tomatoes or something, that may explain a stronger more acidic flavor. Either way looks great already. Personally, I would stick to whole milk, I do not love dragone, if you can find saputo or sorrento it would likely be better. Just my opinion on that though. -marc

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2013, 07:21:30 PM »

Nice job John. If I can be a bit nit picky. Theirs looks to have a slightly smaller thickness factor. So for the next go round, I would take the ball to near room temp and open it up thin. Btw, if you want more crust coloration for a same day dough you might try 2% sugar as already suggested or sneak in 1% dry milk. And before any of the purists start telling me that Classic NY pizza doesn't contain milk products....hey we gotta do what we gotta do to compensate for our home ovens. It works!

Was the texture similar to theirs? Again, nicely done.

Chau

scott123 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:04:27 PM »

Quote from: Jackie Tran on February 18, 2013, 07:21:30 PM

And before any of the purist start telling me that Classic NY pizza doesn't contain milk products....hey we gotta do what we gotta do to compensate for our home ovens.

Do we, Chau?

He's already got his 7 minute bake. Thermodynamically, he's matched the pizzeria oven. The sort of extreme golden brown in Pino's crust could point towards milk/a non traditional approach, so it might be worth trying, but I don't think the home oven needs to be compensated for.

scott123 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:13:14 PM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on February 18, 2013, 05:50:57 PM

I think if I had the HP it would have been better.

The HP is unsuitable for 7 minute NY style pizza:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,22942.0.html

Without the malt, you'll never see the browning you're getting in the Pino's.

Sugar, btw, promotes browning, but it doesn't necessarily promote even browning. Oil is a much bigger player in the even browning game, as is hydration. Another sign that you've got a bit too much water is that your pizza appears to be a bit floppier than theirs. Increase the oil to 4% and decrease the hydration to 58%. That should get you where you want to be. After that, try 5% oil, and, after that, try milk.

Oh, and if you really want the closest facsimile possible, you've got to go with a bleached flour. I can pretty much guarantee you that Pino's is bleached and bromated. You can, if you work at it, work around the bromated, but you can't omit the bleached component if you want a perfect replica.

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #24 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:44:29 PM »

Quote from: scott123 on February 18, 2013, 08:04:27 PM

Do we, Chau? He's already got his 7 minute bake. Thermodynamically, he's matched the pizzeria oven. The sort of extreme golden brown in Pino's crust could point towards milk/a non traditional approach, so it might be worth trying, but I don't think the home oven needs to be compensated for.

Scotty, depending on the home oven, it may be lacking sufficient top heat. But to think of it, some NY crust are blonde and pale as can be. John, I think 2% sugar and a 2 day cold ferment should get you there.

scott123 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 18, 2013, 11:04:06 PM »

Alright, Chau, I'll concede that home oven broilers might not provide the right type of top heat (harsh/fast vs. the very even/slow top heat of deck ovens) although, as long as a broiler is present, I think the heat for NY is always sufficient. I'm also working on ways to temper broiler heat so that it matches up with the even heat of a deck.

John, try less water, more oil first. You won't regret it

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #26 on:** February 18, 2013, 11:32:35 PM »

That's a great lookin' pizza pie John.

+1 on little lower T/F and Sorrento w/m mozz...it'll hold up to your current bake time&temp.

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #27 on:** February 18, 2013, 11:48:33 PM »

Scott, I can agree with decreasing the hydration if John sticks with the same flour. Besides the flop factor that you mentioned, I think John's crumb looks more moist/wet compared to Pino's. But that could have a lot to do with how soon the picture was taken after he sliced the pie. Upping the oil may push the crumb towards being too tender, especially if John likes a slight chew and crisp to the crust. But again, all this is getting into the nit picking realm. As John mentioned, it's already pretty dead on. John if you don't tire of NY pizza, there are so many things you could vary with this formula to tweak it further. I guess that's the fun of pizza making.

deb415611 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 19, 2013, 06:42:30 AM »

John, yours look great!

dellavecchia · « **Reply #29 on:** February 19, 2013, 07:17:47 AM »

Thank you all very much for analyzing. My head is spinning, but I think I have a direction to go in for the next bake. I am not going to use HP, but switch to the organic KABF which has a mix of spring wheat I believe.

I will bake the 24 hour ball later today, and then start a new experiment next weekend. New sauce, new cheese, amended formula.

John

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 19, 2013, 09:51:03 AM »

Awesome pie John. I had the same initial thought as Chau - that your dough ball was substantially larger than Pino's. Are you sure Pino's doesn't paint their cornice with oil. It has a somewhat similar look to the browning of a Mozza crust.

Pete-zza · « **Reply #31 on:** February 19, 2013, 10:02:59 AM »

John,

Maybe I missed it but can you tell me the size of the Pino's pizza and also the size of the one you made?

I agree with the others that you did a nice job. I'm waiting to see your next dough formulation.

Peter

dellavecchia · « **Reply #32 on:** February 19, 2013, 12:40:35 PM »

Craig and Peter - Pino's pizza is 18in. Mine was 14in. My ball size was too big, and in the next formulation I will use TF instead of ball size. Their TF is not as thin as the pics looks though - they are deceiving. Attached is a side shot. Maybe someone can suggest a TF for me.

John

dellavecchia · « **Reply #33 on:** February 19, 2013, 12:42:34 PM »

Quote from: TXCraig1 on February 19, 2013, 09:51:03 AM

Are you sure Pino's doesn't paint their cornice with oil. It has a somewhat similar look to the browning of a Mozza crust.

No, definitely not painting, but I am thinking a larger percentage of oil as Scott pointed out. I believe the owner is from Italy, so I would suspect that their dough has zero sugar but a higher amount of oil.

John

Serpentelli · « **Reply #34 on:** February 19, 2013, 01:44:55 PM »

John,

I showed my wife your pics of the Pino clone last night and she said "That looks just like I remember it!"

She used to live in Brighton; rented the upstairs of a Duplex with an 80++ year-old Italian couple as landlords. He grew wheat in the yard (yes WHEAT!!) and of course made his own wine in the basement. She was always complaining about "Tha shugga, tha shugga!" (she was diabetic) when I asked her how she was doing. That was a long while ago...

Thanks for the memory jolt!

John K

dellavecchia · « **Reply #35 on:** February 19, 2013, 01:52:01 PM »

Ok - I'll post this just because I found it pretty funny. The 24 hour dough ball turned out to be super flavorful, an awesome crumb, nice and tender, and had some nice crust blisters. The complete opposite of Pino's! This is almost a study in flour: gluten is not made equally, and those HG flours they use in pizzerias that are mixed intensively have a lesser quality gluten that does not turn into beautiful crumb structure. But I can say without a doubt the Pino's is a same day dough with minimal refrigeration - probably only for holding. So even subjecting KABF to 10 minutes of mixing still won't break it down.

Marc - thanks for the paste recommendation. Near perfect with that addition. I tried another mozz but it is still not right. I need a larger grate to begin with.

I need more top heat, plain and simple. Will be back this weekend with a modified formula and possibly different oven setup. Thanks again everyone.

John

dellavecchia · « **Reply #36 on:** February 19, 2013, 01:56:42 PM »

Quote from: Serpentelli on February 19, 2013, 01:44:55 PM

I showed my wife your pics of the Pino clone last night and she said "That looks just like I remember it!"

Thanks John. I love going back to that area. There are still some pretty cool neighborhoods in Boston - even if they are right next to that dump Brookline!

John

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #37 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:02:32 PM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on February 19, 2013, 01:52:01 PM

Ok - I'll post this just because I found it pretty funny. The 24 hour dough ball turned out to be super flavorful, an awesome crumb, nice and tender, and had some nice crust blisters. The complete opposite of Pino's! This is almost a study in flour: gluten is not made equally, and those HG flours they use in pizzerias that are mixed intensively have a lesser quality gluten that does not turn into beautiful crumb structure. But I can say without a doubt the Pino's is a same day dough with minimal refrigeration - probably only for holding. So even subjecting KABF to 10 minutes of mixing still won't break it down.

Marc - thanks for the paste recommendation. Near perfect with that addition. I tried another mozz but it is still not right. I need a larger grate to begin with.

I need more top heat, plain and simple. Will be back this weekend with a modified formula and possibly different oven setup. Thanks again everyone.

John

What a difference a day makes, huh......amazing.

JD · « **Reply #38 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:06:01 PM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on February 19, 2013, 01:56:42 PM

There are still some pretty cool neighborhoods in Boston - even if they are right next to that dump Brookline!

John

Woah woah woah... and to think I was just about to compliment you....

dellavecchia · « **Reply #39 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:11:09 PM »

Quote from: JD on February 19, 2013, 02:06:01 PM

Woah woah woah... and to think I was just about to compliment you....

Apologies - that was completely a joke about how great Brookline is compared to Brighton.

John