Author Topic: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA  (Read 8399 times)

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scott123

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2013, 11:04:06 PM »
Alright, Chau, I'll concede that home oven broilers might not provide the right type of top heat (harsh/fast vs. the very even/slow top heat of deck ovens) although, as long as a broiler is present, I think the heat for NY is always sufficient. I'm also working on ways to temper broiler heat so that it matches up with the even heat of a deck.

John, try less water, more oil first. You won't regret it  >:D
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 11:05:55 PM by scott123 »


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2013, 11:32:35 PM »
That's a great lookin' pizza pie John.  :chef:

+1 on little lower T/F and Sorrento w/m mozz...it'll hold up to your current bake time&temp.
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Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2013, 11:48:33 PM »
Scott, I can agree with decreasing the hydration if John sticks with the same flour.  Besides the flop factor that you mentioned, I think John's crumb looks more moist/wet compared to Pino's.  But that could have a lot to do with how soon the picture was taken after he sliced the pie.  Upping the oil may push the crumb towards being too tender, especially if John likes a slight chew and crisp to the crust.  But again, all this is getting into the nit picking realm. As John mentioned,  it's already pretty dead on. John if you don't tire of NY pizza,  there are so many things you could vary with this formula to tweak it further.  I guess that's the fun of pizza making.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 12:06:45 AM by Jackie Tran »

Offline deb415611

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2013, 06:42:30 AM »
John,  yours look great!
Deb

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2013, 07:17:47 AM »
Thank you all very much for analyzing. My head is spinning, but I think I have a direction to go in for the next bake. I am not going to use HP, but switch to the organic KABF which has a mix of spring wheat I believe.

I will bake the 24 hour ball later today, and then start a new experiment next weekend. New sauce, new cheese, amended formula.

John

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2013, 09:51:03 AM »
Awesome pie John. I had the same initial thought as Chau - that your dough ball was substantially larger than Pino's.  Are you sure Pino's doesn't paint their cornice with oil. It has a somewhat similar look to the browning of a Mozza crust.
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2013, 10:02:59 AM »
John,

Maybe I missed it but can you tell me the size of the Pino's pizza and also the size of the one you made?

I agree with the others that you did a nice job. I'm waiting to see your next dough formulation.

Peter

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2013, 12:40:35 PM »
Craig and Peter - Pino's pizza is 18in. Mine was 14in. My ball size was too big, and in the next formulation I will use TF instead of ball size. Their TF is not as thin as the pics looks though - they are deceiving. Attached is a side shot. Maybe someone can suggest a TF for me.

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2013, 12:42:34 PM »
Are you sure Pino's doesn't paint their cornice with oil. It has a somewhat similar look to the browning of a Mozza crust.

No, definitely not painting, but I am thinking a larger percentage of oil as Scott pointed out. I believe the owner is from Italy, so I would suspect that their dough has zero sugar but a higher amount of oil.

John


Offline Serpentelli

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2013, 01:44:55 PM »
John,

I showed my wife your pics of the Pino clone last night and she said "That looks just like I remember it!"

She used to live in Brighton; rented the upstairs of a Duplex with an 80++ year-old Italian couple as landlords. He grew wheat in the yard (yes WHEAT!!) and of course made his own wine in the basement. She was always complaining about "Tha shugga, tha shugga!" (she was diabetic) when I asked her how she was doing. That was a long while ago...

Thanks for the memory jolt!

John K
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Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2013, 01:52:01 PM »
Ok - I'll post this just because I found it pretty funny. The 24 hour dough ball turned out to be super flavorful, an awesome crumb, nice and tender, and had some nice crust blisters. The complete opposite of Pino's! This is almost a study in flour: gluten is not made equally, and those HG flours they use in pizzerias that are mixed intensively have a lesser quality gluten that does not turn into beautiful crumb structure. But I can say without a doubt the Pino's is a same day dough with minimal refrigeration - probably only for holding. So even subjecting KABF to 10 minutes of mixing still won't break it down.

Marc - thanks for the paste recommendation. Near perfect with that addition. I tried another mozz but it is still not right. I need a larger grate to begin with.

I need more top heat, plain and simple. Will be back this weekend with a modified formula and possibly different oven setup. Thanks again everyone.

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2013, 01:56:42 PM »
I showed my wife your pics of the Pino clone last night and she said "That looks just like I remember it!"

Thanks John. I love going back to that area. There are still some pretty cool neighborhoods in Boston - even if they are right next to that dump Brookline!

John

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2013, 02:02:32 PM »
Ok - I'll post this just because I found it pretty funny. The 24 hour dough ball turned out to be super flavorful, an awesome crumb, nice and tender, and had some nice crust blisters. The complete opposite of Pino's! This is almost a study in flour: gluten is not made equally, and those HG flours they use in pizzerias that are mixed intensively have a lesser quality gluten that does not turn into beautiful crumb structure. But I can say without a doubt the Pino's is a same day dough with minimal refrigeration - probably only for holding. So even subjecting KABF to 10 minutes of mixing still won't break it down.

Marc - thanks for the paste recommendation. Near perfect with that addition. I tried another mozz but it is still not right. I need a larger grate to begin with.

I need more top heat, plain and simple. Will be back this weekend with a modified formula and possibly different oven setup. Thanks again everyone.

John
What a difference a day makes, huh......amazing.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline JD

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2013, 02:06:01 PM »
There are still some pretty cool neighborhoods in Boston - even if they are right next to that dump Brookline!

John

Woah woah woah... and to think I was just about to compliment you....

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2013, 02:11:09 PM »
Woah woah woah... and to think I was just about to compliment you....

Apologies - that was completely a joke about how great Brookline is compared to Brighton.

John

Offline JD

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2013, 02:16:06 PM »
I know, I'm kidding. No apology necessary!

I do like your 24hr pizza better than Pino's too. That's  a personal preference though.

Apologies - that was completely a joke about how great Brookline is compared to Brighton.

John

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2013, 02:18:10 PM »
I do like your 24hr pizza better than Pino's too. That's  a personal preference though.

I sort of did as well, but I really want to get that Pino's dough texture down. I have had great success with many other styles but I just can't wrap my head around true NY yet.

John


Offline JD

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2013, 02:28:52 PM »
Judging by your pictures I would consider your 24hr attempt closer to a "True NY" than Pino's. Their pizza is very good NY style for what you can find in Massachusetts, but not really what I would consider a spot-on NY style pizza. Also depends on what type of NY pizza you are interested in... I find it varies a lot between bouroughs.

I grew up in NY, went to college in Boston if it matters.


I sort of did as well, but I really want to get that Pino's dough texture down. I have had great success with many other styles but I just can't wrap my head around true NY yet.

John

scott123

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #43 on: February 19, 2013, 04:42:28 PM »
While, unfortunately, the definition of 'true NY' is going to be a bit different depending on who you talk to, according to my own personal 'true NY' barometer, which corresponds with JD's, dough #2 is definitely truer. You've managed to produce something very Pizza Town-ish, all the way down to the microblisters on the rim.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13112.msg128605.html#msg128605

If you wanted NY, you got it. I know that you're looking for a particular texture, and this may not match up with that specific goal, but as far as NY style milestones go, this is a pretty big one.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 05:31:30 PM by scott123 »

scott123

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2013, 04:46:17 PM »
Maybe someone can suggest a TF for me.

TF is relative to oven spring.  You're getting more spring than they are.  I think if you matched their tighter crumb structure with your present quantity of dough, the thicknesses would be fairly comparable.  If you want something closer to their thickness, but with your oven spring... I might go with a .09 TF.

Edit: John, this last dough looks a bit like a 6 minute bake rather than a 7.  Are you still working with 525?  What stone are you using?

Also, now that I've spent some more time looking at the most recent shot you posted of Pino's pizza, I can guarantee you that they're using more oil.  Based on that shot, I would completely skip over the 4% increase and go straight to 5%. It might be, a la Chau, a hard fat, like shortening, but I would try 5% liquid oil first.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 05:15:39 PM by scott123 »

Offline scott r

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2013, 09:14:38 PM »
Just found this post... so funny to me that pinos makes it on pizzamaking.com.   To me thats not really NY style pizza, but its good for sure.   I used to make the trek all the way up the green line from the back bay to hit pinos.    For me it seemed like a mom and pop version of (our local chain) papa ginos, but done a little better.   Definitely NY ish.   

Try some ascorbic acid (TINY amount) to help simulate the bromate.   it will let you proof longer and give you a larger window of "the texture"   You wont have to mix as much as you have been (IF you have been nailing the mix time)   

good luck!

Offline scott r

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2013, 09:17:18 PM »
I have changed my stance on ascorbic acid.    It definitely does get you a little closer to the bromate vibe.   Its hard to nail the correct amount, though, so if you have a VERY precise scale it will help.   

scott123

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2013, 09:24:32 PM »
I have changed my stance on ascorbic acid.

*throwing my arms in the air* Et tu, Scott? Et tu?  :-D

Offline widespreadpizza

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2013, 11:28:38 PM »
scott I have a very precise scale....  so whats the amount??  do tell.

Offline Jackie Tran

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Re: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2013, 11:39:13 PM »
Ascorbic acid is a dough enhancer.  You can crush up a aspirin Vit C tablet or use vinegar.  It will make the crumb fluffier or lighter I think.  Maybe Scott or the Dough Doctor can correct me here.  I have noticed that vinegar affects crust coloration in a negative way so I assume ascorbic acid will do the same.  I would skip it and rely on the oil and proper gluten developement.  But I too am insterested in the amount.

EDIT: I am not recommending anyone put Aspirin in their dough.  A faulty recollection of something I read about Vit C and dough enhancement awhile ago.  For some reason my brain replaced Vit C with aspirin.  My apologies.  :-[

Chau
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 09:45:43 AM by Jackie Tran »