Author Topic: Recreating Pino's - Brighton, MA (Read 2685 times)

JD · « **Reply #40 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:16:06 PM »

I know, I'm kidding. No apology necessary!

I do like your 24hr pizza better than Pino's too. That's a personal preference though.

Quote from: dellavecchia on February 19, 2013, 02:11:09 PM

Apologies - that was completely a joke about how great Brookline is compared to Brighton.

John

dellavecchia · « **Reply #41 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:18:10 PM »

Quote from: JD on February 19, 2013, 02:16:06 PM

I do like your 24hr pizza better than Pino's too. That's a personal preference though.

I sort of did as well, but I really want to get that Pino's dough texture down. I have had great success with many other styles but I just can't wrap my head around true NY yet.

John

JD · « **Reply #42 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:28:52 PM »

Judging by your pictures I would consider your 24hr attempt closer to a "True NY" than Pino's. Their pizza is very good NY style for what you can find in Massachusetts, but not really what I would consider a spot-on NY style pizza. Also depends on what type of NY pizza you are interested in... I find it varies a lot between bouroughs.

I grew up in NY, went to college in Boston if it matters.

Quote from: dellavecchia on February 19, 2013, 02:18:10 PM

I sort of did as well, but I really want to get that Pino's dough texture down. I have had great success with many other styles but I just can't wrap my head around true NY yet.

John

scott123 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 19, 2013, 04:42:28 PM »

While, unfortunately, the definition of 'true NY' is going to be a bit different depending on who you talk to, according to my own personal 'true NY' barometer, which corresponds with JD's, dough #2 is definitely truer. You've managed to produce something very Pizza Town-ish, all the way down to the microblisters on the rim.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,13112.msg128605.html#msg128605

If you wanted NY, you got it. I know that you're looking for a particular texture, and this may not match up with that specific goal, but as far as NY style milestones go, this is a pretty big one.

scott123 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 19, 2013, 04:46:17 PM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on February 19, 2013, 12:40:35 PM

Maybe someone can suggest a TF for me.

TF is relative to oven spring. You're getting more spring than they are. I think if you matched their tighter crumb structure with your present quantity of dough, the thicknesses would be fairly comparable. If you want something closer to their thickness, but with your oven spring... I might go with a .09 TF.

Edit: John, this last dough looks a bit like a 6 minute bake rather than a 7. Are you still working with 525? What stone are you using?

Also, now that I've spent some more time looking at the most recent shot you posted of Pino's pizza, I can guarantee you that they're using more oil. Based on that shot, I would completely skip over the 4% increase and go straight to 5%. It might be, a la Chau, a hard fat, like shortening, but I would try 5% liquid oil first.

scott r · « **Reply #45 on:** February 20, 2013, 09:14:38 PM »

Just found this post... so funny to me that pinos makes it on pizzamaking.com. To me thats not really NY style pizza, but its good for sure. I used to make the trek all the way up the green line from the back bay to hit pinos. For me it seemed like a mom and pop version of (our local chain) papa ginos, but done a little better. Definitely NY ish.

Try some ascorbic acid (TINY amount) to help simulate the bromate. it will let you proof longer and give you a larger window of "the texture" You wont have to mix as much as you have been (IF you have been nailing the mix time)

good luck!

scott r · « **Reply #46 on:** February 20, 2013, 09:17:18 PM »

I have changed my stance on ascorbic acid. It definitely does get you a little closer to the bromate vibe. Its hard to nail the correct amount, though, so if you have a VERY precise scale it will help.

scott123 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 20, 2013, 09:24:32 PM »

Quote from: scott r on February 20, 2013, 09:17:18 PM

I have changed my stance on ascorbic acid.

*throwing my arms in the air* Et tu, Scott? Et tu?

widespreadpizza · « **Reply #48 on:** February 20, 2013, 11:28:38 PM »

scott I have a very precise scale.... so whats the amount?? do tell.

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #49 on:** February 20, 2013, 11:39:13 PM »

Ascorbic acid is a dough enhancer. You can crush up a ~~aspirin~~ Vit C tablet or use vinegar. It will make the crumb fluffier or lighter I think. Maybe Scott or the Dough Doctor can correct me here. I have noticed that vinegar affects crust coloration in a negative way so I assume ascorbic acid will do the same. I would skip it and rely on the oil and proper gluten developement. But I too am insterested in the amount.

EDIT: I am not recommending anyone put Aspirin in their dough. A faulty recollection of something I read about Vit C and dough enhancement awhile ago. For some reason my brain replaced Vit C with aspirin. My apologies.

Chau

scott r · « **Reply #50 on:** February 20, 2013, 11:51:28 PM »

0.0055%

Chau, thats interesting about the lack of browning. Im not sure I have noticed that, but right around the time I started testing ascorbic acid again I also stopped blending in non malted flours (only because I ran out) ... so ... .maybe it does slow down browning, but I dont always consider that a bad thing (700 floor temps etc.)

Chicago Bob · « **Reply #51 on:** February 21, 2013, 12:03:25 AM »

Quote from: scott r on February 20, 2013, 11:51:28 PM

0.0055%

Chau, thats interesting about the lack of browning. Im not sure I have noticed that, but right around the time I started testing ascorbic acid again I also stopped blending in non malted flours (only because I ran out) ... so ... .maybe it does slow down browning, but I dont always consider that a bad thing (700 floor temps etc.)

Scott,
Is aspirin or vinegar a suitable substitute?

scott r · « **Reply #52 on:** February 21, 2013, 12:41:20 AM »

I bought my ascorbic acid from the king arthur catalog, and at the amounts I use I think I will make it through my entire lifetime with that one bottle. I dont think I would bother trying to crush up aspirin.... I think there are fillers etc. in pills, and honestly, I think its really important that you dont use too much ascorbic acid, so with a crushed pill how do you really know how much you are getting?

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 21, 2013, 09:02:02 AM »

Quote from: Chicago Bob on February 21, 2013, 12:03:25 AM

Scott,
Is aspirin or vinegar a suitable substitute?

Ascorbic acid is vitamin C. Asprin is acetylsalicylic acid, and vinegar is acetic acid, so I'm not sure why there would be a reason to think either would be a suitable substitute. While the acid might help the yeast, it is the ascorbic part that is important here. It is the oxidizing action of bromate that you are seeking to replicate. Ironically, ascorbic acid is a reducing agent (anti-oxidant) which is why it is used to keep fruit from turning brown. However, when exposed to oxygen during mixing, it forms dehydroascorbic which is an oxidizing agent.

It's not hard to come by pure ascorbic acid. I'd be surprised if most large drug stores with big vitamin departments didn't sell 100% ascorbic acid. I'd guess places like GNC almost certainly do. Even if you can only find it in pill form, if you have a scale that is suitably accurate for measuring the ascorbic acid for your dough, you could also likely use it to weigh the pill to find what % is ascorbic acid. The label will tell you how many mg is in each pill. Divide by the pill weight and you have a % you can multiply by pill powder weight to figure out how much to use. You do not want to use a chewable tablet.

Speaking of scales, it the quantity is as sensitive as Scott suggests, a scale with 0.001 resolution may be necessary.

Serpentelli · « **Reply #54 on:** February 21, 2013, 09:08:12 AM »

You might want to warn some of your guests if you are using acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin) in your pizza dough ---especially kids who might develop Reye's syndrome.

On the other hand ascorbic acid is ubiquitous and safe for probably everyone.

John K

TXCraig1 · « **Reply #55 on:** February 21, 2013, 09:19:13 AM »

Quote from: Serpentelli on February 21, 2013, 09:08:12 AM

You might want to warn some of your guests if you are using acetylsalicylic acid (aspirin) in your pizza dough ---especially kids who might develop Reye's syndrome.

On the other hand ascorbic acid is ubiquitous and safe for probably everyone.

John K

Why would anyone put asprin in their dough in the first place? Where did that idea even come from?

Like bromate, there won't be any ascorbic acid left in the bread after baking.

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #56 on:** February 21, 2013, 09:39:04 AM »

Sorry John K and Craig. I had meant to say Vit C tablet and not aspirin. Read it awhile ago and my memory is a bit faulty. FWIW, I have not tried acorbic acid or vitamin C in dough. Only vinegar and that was for making Vietnamese baguettes.

Chau

Pete-zza · « **Reply #57 on:** February 21, 2013, 09:46:22 AM »

Quote from: TXCraig1 on February 21, 2013, 09:19:13 AM

Why would anyone put asprin in their dough in the first place? Where did that idea even come from?

Like bromate, there won't be any ascorbic acid left in the bread after baking.

Craig,

It looks like Alton Brown was one place: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1029.msg9176.html#msg9176, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,4977.msg42129.html#msg42129 and http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3388.msg28666.html#msg28666.

Peter

Serpentelli · « **Reply #58 on:** February 21, 2013, 09:47:41 AM »

Chau,

No problem! You may want to take an Aspirin for that memory problem! Keep that blood flowing nice and smoothly!

John K

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #59 on:** February 21, 2013, 09:59:30 AM »

Thanks Peter. John K, I don't feel as bad now that I know Alton and his editor(s) made the same mistake.