Author Topic: Adding Wheat Gluten to Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer? (Read 626 times)

alpinegroove · « **on:** February 17, 2013, 05:49:37 PM »

Does anyone here know how much protein is in Giusto's Organic Ultimate Performer?

Would it be beneficial to mix in with it some wheat gluten? How much? What might those benefits be?

Thank you.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:04:34 PM »

That is a 14% protein flour. What are you trying to accomplish by adding more gluten?

John

alpinegroove · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:08:16 PM »

I am not sure. I thought I read somewhere that it would be better to use flour with more than 14% protein.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:09:24 PM »

Quote from: alpinegroove on February 17, 2013, 06:08:16 PM

I am not sure. I thought I read somewhere that it would be better to use flour with more than 14% protein.

If you are making bagels maybe. What style of pizza are you making?

John

alpinegroove · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:11:50 PM »

I usually make Peter Reinhart's neo-neapolitan.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:15:11 PM »

You can certainly use that flour for that recipe. But is there an issue you are having that you thought adding VWG would fix?

John

alpinegroove · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:16:44 PM »

No, not really an issue. As I said, I thought I read that somewhere...Maybe I am mis-remembering.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:21:48 PM »

Quote from: alpinegroove on February 17, 2013, 06:16:44 PM

No, not really an issue. As I said, I thought I read that somewhere...Maybe I am mis-remembering.

Ultimate performer is a very esoteric, high end, high protein flour. You do not need high protein flour to make good pizza. Protein is not created equally in all flours. And more does not equal better. Flour in the 12% range is more than enough for neo-Neapolitan. But UP can work very well too as long as you mix correctly.

John

dineomite · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:29:35 PM »

John,

What do you mean by "mix correctly"?

-Cal

alpinegroove · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:35:54 PM »

I am lucky to be able to buy UP in bulk in SF.

dellavecchia · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:38:48 PM »

Quote from: dineomite on February 17, 2013, 06:29:35 PM

John,

What do you mean by "mix correctly"?

-Cal

In the case if this flour and the Reinhart recipe, you would not want to, for example, use a no knead or stretch and fold approach. You would want to mechanically mix this flour for a good amount of time to get the gluten developed. This is also not the type of flour you mix until incorporated and cold ferment for gluten development.

John

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:41:38 PM »

I use this flour for my NYC-style dough and bagels using the stretch-and-fold method. But then again, I use stretch-and-fold for my breakfast cereal

dellavecchia · « **Reply #12 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:42:24 PM »

Quote from: alpinegroove on February 17, 2013, 06:35:54 PM

I am lucky to be able to buy UP in bulk in SF.

Very lucky indeed. Try High Performer or the Artisan Bread Flour for your neo recipe. You might like them better.

John

dellavecchia · « **Reply #13 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:42:44 PM »

Quote from: Bill/SFNM on February 17, 2013, 06:41:38 PM

I use this flour for my NYC-style dough and bagels using the stretch-and-fold method. But then again, I use stretch-and-fold for my breakfast cereal

You are a flour warrior!

John

alpinegroove · « **Reply #14 on:** February 17, 2013, 07:23:29 PM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on February 17, 2013, 06:42:24 PM

Very lucky indeed. Try High Performer or the Artisan Bread Flour for your neo recipe. You might like them better.

Thanks for the tip. What do you like better about them?

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #15 on:** February 17, 2013, 09:06:02 PM »

Quote from: dellavecchia on February 17, 2013, 06:38:48 PM

In the case if this flour and the Reinhart recipe, you would not want to, for example, use a no knead or stretch and fold approach. You would want to mechanically mix this flour for a good amount of time to get the gluten developed. This is also not the type of flour you mix until incorporated and cold ferment for gluten development.

John

John I would agree with you that with UP, you wouldn't want to use a typical high hydration and minimal development of the dough. I would say that at typical hydrations used for typical HG flours, using UP....and then doing your typical round of S & F (a la Tartine / Chad Robertson), the gluten will not be developed sufficiently and the dough will tend to fall flat. You can use a minimal mix followed by a S&F technique with this flour with a cold ferment, you just have to make a few adjustments. With this flour, you have to develop it further than typical HG flours. So if you lower your hydration a bit (maybe 5%) and up the number of stretch and folds per round and maybe toss in a few extra rounds, UP will behave more like a typical HG flour.

Chau

alpinegroove · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2013, 09:16:30 PM »

On Giusto's website, it says:

Protein: 13.0-14.5%.

http://giustos.com/professional/flours/unbleached-white-flours/giustos-organic-ultimate-performer-unbleached-flour.html

But on the label at the store where I get it in bulk, the nutritional info says the following:

Per 100 grams, 11.5 grams of protein.

Bill/SFNM · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2013, 09:25:59 PM »

Not sure if this is helpful, but this is brief video clip of the final stretch & fold of a batch of NYC-style dough I recently made using Giustos UP. The dough stated out at 70% hydration (including starter water) but I spritzed it after each S&F, so I guess it may have been closer to 75% hydration.

<a href="http://youtu.be/BuEN2HHIWVo" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://youtu.be/BuEN2HHIWVo</a>

Jackie Tran · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2013, 09:38:13 PM »

Against my better judgement, I just started a batch of tartine bread dough using Guisto's UP at 80% hydration including the starter water. I'll be using a S&F technique but something closer to my Lazy Man's bread technique which involves developing the dough more.

alpinegroove · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:10:36 PM »

What's the problem with using UP for the Tartine recipe?
I have done that many times successfully.